Does anybody know when the North American retailers are going to get some of these back in stock? I'm pretty sure they've all had OOS markings for a couple of months now...
Does anybody know when the North American retailers are going to get some of these back in stock? I'm pretty sure they've all had OOS markings for a couple of months now...
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...&filter_id=114
Looks like the .3 is the only model oos at Performance-pcs.
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
EDIT: Dang, Agent beat me to it.
Performance PC's has the 120.1 and the 120.2 in stock. But other than that, I feel ya on the wide spread out of stock reports.
Core i7 920 D0 B-batch (4.1) (Kinda Stable?) | DFI X58 T3eH8 (Fed up with its' issues, may get a new board soon) | Patriot 1600 (9-9-9-24) (for now) | XFX HD 4890 (971/1065) (for now) |
80GB X25-m G2 | WD 640GB | PCP&C 750 | Dell 2408 LCD | NEC 1970GX LCD | Win7 Pro | CoolerMaster ATCS 840 {Modded to reverse-ATX, WC'ing internal}
CPU Loop: MCP655 > HK 3.0 LT > ST 320 (3x Scythe G's) > ST Res >Pump
GPU Loop: MCP655 > MCW-60 > PA160 (1x YL D12SH) > ST Res > BIP 220 (2x YL D12SH) >Pump
Just get a swiftech rad. 1/3rd the price 2.9999/3 the performance.
Phenom II 940 BE / ASUS M4A79 / HD5770 Crossfire
3770mhz CPU 2600mhz NB | DDR1040 5-5-5-15 | 900/1250
For the record I am not sick, nor am I a gamer, nor am I a sick gamer. That name just sounds really cool to me but dont put me under that stereotype at all.
nevermind... addicted to COD4 and Free Online Games baby!
i got my pa120.3 last week before dangerden sold out
how does the 120.1 compare to the pa160? Which is better?
Praetor
» Intel i7 2600K 3103B306 » Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z » Asus GTX 470's TRi-SLI » Corsair Dominator GT CMT4GX3M2A2000C8 » Corsair Force F180 SSD » Corsair AX1200 PSU » Corsair 800D
» Cooling : Swiftec Apogee XT » Swiftec MCP350-DDC1 w/XSPC Dual DDC Bay Reservoir » Swiftech MCR320-QP w/Scythe SlipStreams 110CFM
The Yamato
» Intel i7 920 3849B028 or i7 980X » Asus Rampage III Extreme Black Edition » Asus HD6970's QuadFireX or Asus GTX 570's 4way SLI » 6GB Corsair Dominator GT TR3X6G1866C7GTF » Corsair Force F180 SSD » Corsair AX1200 PSU » Microcool Banchetto 101
» Cooling : Dragon F1 Extreme Edition(LN2) » Custom SS by RunMc »
I have found the 160 actually compares vary favorably with the PA 120.2 . The PA120.1 doesn't stand up to the 160 at all.
Graph here
PA120.1 is half as good as a PA120.2
At 1.5gpm, and a Panaflo H at 7v (which typically offers around 10% better than a Yate-Loon at 12v in my testing)
PA120.2 = ~0.036C/W
MCR220 = ~0.038C/W
PA160,1 = ~0.055C/W
PA120.1 = ~0.072C/W (estimated)
"Worth" depends on the heat-load. At 100W, PA120.2 is ~0.2C better than MCR2220. At 250W heat-load (CPU + GPU), PA120.2 is ~0.5C better.
Comparing PA160.1 to PA120.2. At 100W, PA120.2 is ~1.9C better than PA160.1 At 250W heat-load, PA120.2 is ~4.7C better than PA160.1.
Comparing PA120.1 to PA160.1. At 100W, PA160.1 is ~1.7C better than PA120.1 At 250W heat-load, PA160.1 is ~4.2C better than PA120.1. Then again, not usually best to run a single 120.1 with 250W of heat load.
i.e. A PA160.1 sits about exactly mid-way between a PA120.1 and PA120.2.
Last edited by Cathar; 07-01-2007 at 06:27 PM.
From what I've heard, All stores have been having a hard time getting Thermochills lately. No idea why.
Use the power of your CPU and GPU to contribute to science! Become a member of one of the most competitive teams in the world of distributed computing, help find cures for diseases and various other charitable scientific causes. It's as simple as running a program! Go visit the World Community Grid and Folding at Home Forums for more information on these projects. CRUNCH 'N FOLD!
Praetor
» Intel i7 2600K 3103B306 » Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z » Asus GTX 470's TRi-SLI » Corsair Dominator GT CMT4GX3M2A2000C8 » Corsair Force F180 SSD » Corsair AX1200 PSU » Corsair 800D
» Cooling : Swiftec Apogee XT » Swiftec MCP350-DDC1 w/XSPC Dual DDC Bay Reservoir » Swiftech MCR320-QP w/Scythe SlipStreams 110CFM
The Yamato
» Intel i7 920 3849B028 or i7 980X » Asus Rampage III Extreme Black Edition » Asus HD6970's QuadFireX or Asus GTX 570's 4way SLI » 6GB Corsair Dominator GT TR3X6G1866C7GTF » Corsair Force F180 SSD » Corsair AX1200 PSU » Microcool Banchetto 101
» Cooling : Dragon F1 Extreme Edition(LN2) » Custom SS by RunMc »
i7-2600k @ 4.8Ghz 1.38v L044A892
ASUS P8P67 LGA
16GB G.Skill Rip Jaws DDR3 1600Mhz Memory
1/2" ID Masterkleer, Swiftech MCP-655, Thermochill PA120.3 Rad, XSPC Rasa, MCW-60
Cooler Master UCP 1100 Watt PSU
GTX 680 1300/7000
Lian Li PC V-2000
Praetor
» Intel i7 2600K 3103B306 » Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z » Asus GTX 470's TRi-SLI » Corsair Dominator GT CMT4GX3M2A2000C8 » Corsair Force F180 SSD » Corsair AX1200 PSU » Corsair 800D
» Cooling : Swiftec Apogee XT » Swiftec MCP350-DDC1 w/XSPC Dual DDC Bay Reservoir » Swiftech MCR320-QP w/Scythe SlipStreams 110CFM
The Yamato
» Intel i7 920 3849B028 or i7 980X » Asus Rampage III Extreme Black Edition » Asus HD6970's QuadFireX or Asus GTX 570's 4way SLI » 6GB Corsair Dominator GT TR3X6G1866C7GTF » Corsair Force F180 SSD » Corsair AX1200 PSU » Microcool Banchetto 101
» Cooling : Dragon F1 Extreme Edition(LN2) » Custom SS by RunMc »
Cathar I know you have a bike racing background . Mine is in auto racing . I spent 4 months in hospital with the hurtin .
I have a question for ya . I really like the PA 160's . Pound for pound I consider them the world champs.
In racing cars we use resticters in 700hp+ engines to cool them without the resticters they over heat.
I have found On a single 160 that a lot of flow threw them isn't as good as a metered flow it seems that about 3.2 gpm is the most efficient for single application . But if you use 2 or more in series than higher flow is required.
So I have 2 questions do you restict the flow on your racing bike.
Have you tried 160's in series and what were your results.
By the way a read the [H] forums thread on tube sizing . I am vary sorry TN gave you such a hard time . I like TN have always believed in small tube sizes. The differances between us tho is I understand flow much better than TN . TN has in the past made some good points and I agreed depending on the blocks used. Some of the German blocks back than did infact work very well with small tubes.
I have also always from day one promoted the ideal of using flow control rather than a single loop if more than 1 block is used. I believe if your going to cool with liquid cool everthing and this is were I have run into problems. Biggest problem is the pumps . Getting a pump that flows 8-10gpm thats also quiet is hard and does not dump to much heat in the system. As you well know. With your background I know that you understand the problems I have gone threw trying to get the perfect combinations required to accomplish my goals. I had to build a box to mount the dual pump system in and suspended them and use sound absorbing material inside the box. with air ducting for a little flow over the motors.
With your experiance could you tell me what pumps you would use to achieve 8-10gpm flow that are 12v or 24v . You already know the 3 pumps I am working with a little insight from you would be vary helpful.
I'd call myself a track-day junkie, rather than an actual bike racer. I get around a track certainly fast-enough to go racing if I wanted to, but racing is an expensive "hobby", as I'm sure you're aware. Even half the guys who fill the grid at the national superbike level here in Australia are basically paying their own way. It is suggested that this is what makes Australians so successful at bike racing in the international scene, because we're all so hungry, and many riders are having to compete with inferior machinery in order to prove themselves against the big boys. I digress though.
So yeah, while my bike is little more than a race-bike with lights, it's still stock in terms of the radiator, and I've never had a problem with it overheating. The engine is probably at around 160-165hp at the crank though (1000cc engine), whereas the really tweaked 1000cc race bikes are up around 210hp at the crank, and the international superbikes up around 220hp at the crank.
I've often heard/read about the restrictors thing in high-powered engines, and to be honest I couldn't answer as to why that would be the case. It might even be a function of the water pump? If the pump impeller is spinning too quickly, cavitation may be occurring when there's inadequate back-pressure, resulting in a reduced flow-rate, and adding in some restriction may be the solution to this.
I'd seriously like to stick a flow-rate sensor onto some of these car-engines where it is reported that unrestricted flows leads to overheating. I personally think that something else is occurring, and as above, I think it'd be related to how the pump is behaving.
Back to the world of PC radiators, and the PA160.1.
When you report 3.2gpm, how are you metering the flow? You are aware that pump heat dump is a significant factor at higher flow rates. Up to a certain point extra flow through a radiator does nothing to increase performance, and indeed performance will even plateau. At even higher flow rates the pump will dump even more heat into the system (even if using a restrictor this happens), and this eventually overcomes the tiny performance improvement you got from those higher flow rates. It's not that the radiators start performing worse, it's cos the pump is dumping more heat with the higher flow rate than the benefit you get from the higher flow rate.
When you say you can achieve higher flow rates with multiple radiators, that actually backs up my assumption above. With more radiators, they can deal with the extra pump heat better, and so you can reach even higher flow rates before pump heat starts to overcome the benefits again. Throw on a third or fourth radiator, and the limit will be even higher again.
Reference this thread for a detailed discussion on this effect.
Don't worry about TN. I can handle myself just fine. I think she, and others, get a little overly defensive about their choice and accuse me of criticising their choice when really I've done no such thing. I support their choice if it suits their needs, but I sit in the scientific middle of the whole debate and approach it with a fairly impassionate eye towards what are the real impacts of what's going on, and leave everyone else to squabble over what's important to them. Some just make the mistake of thinking that I have a "side", when really I don't. I've been attacked by both high-flow and low-flow afficiandos in the past, because they don't realise that I really don't have a side, and so both camps like to paint me as suits their prejudice.
As for 12v or 24v pumps in the 8-10gpm mark, your choices are very limited. Best to first identify how much back-pressure we're expecting to operate against at that level, and then we can construct a solution for the problem. It is unlikely that there's a single pump that will do what you want, but a pair of pumps, such as 2 x Iwaki RD30's in parallel would get you pretty close. I'm not really aware of any stronger DC pumps than the RD30's that are easily available to the general consumer.
Good thing you don't have to worry about the likes of her here anymore. I'm surprised you manage to keep your composure as well as you do with the inane crap/invective thrown your way. It's not good enough that you settled the peace between the tubing size, but they feel as if you didn't go far enough, hoping for a proclamation from you of "Low flow is the only way to go!"
Why two RD-30's in parallel rather than series? I always figured series was the way to go.As for 12v or 24v pumps in the 8-10gpm mark, your choices are very limited. Best to first identify how much back-pressure we're expecting to operate against at that level, and then we can construct a solution for the problem. It is unlikely that there's a single pump that will do what you want, but a pair of pumps, such as 2 x Iwaki RD30's in parallel would get you pretty close. I'm not really aware of any stronger DC pumps than the RD30's that are easily available to the general consumer.
MM Extended U2-UFO CYO (Duality front, Standard back, Horizontal Mobo brace) Anodized Black || eVGA X58 || Intel i7 920 || 6 GB Corsair Dominator PC3-12800|| eVGA 295GTX || Asus Xonar Essence STX || VisionTek 650 TV Tuner || 1 300GB WD Velociraptor || 1TB WD's Black Ed. || LG 22X DVD-Writer || Lite-On 20x DVD-Writer || Corsair CMPSU-1000HX PSU
CPU Loop: DDC-2 w/ XSPC Reservoir Top -> Swiftech GTZ -> Thermochill PA120.3 (Push: 3 Scythe S-Flex G)
GPU Loop: DDC-2 w/ XSPC Reservoir Top -> (Koolance VID-NX295 FC block) ->Thermochill PA120.3 (Push: 3 Scythe S-Flex G)
Chipset Loop: DDC-2 w/ XSPC Reservoir Top -> Alphacool Silentstar Dual HD waterblock enclosure -> Bitspower Black Freezer eVGA x58 MOSFET-> Bitspower Black Freezer eVGA x58 NB -> Thermochill PA120.2 (Pull: 2 Scythe S-Flex G)
2 x Dell 2408FPW LCD || Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 || Logitech G9 Mouse || Logitech G15 LCD Keyboard || Logitech Quickcam Ultravision || Sennheiser Headphones
ncix.com has 120.2 and 120.3 in stock.
MM Extended U2-UFO CYO (Duality front, Standard back, Horizontal Mobo brace) Anodized Black || eVGA X58 || Intel i7 920 || 6 GB Corsair Dominator PC3-12800|| eVGA 295GTX || Asus Xonar Essence STX || VisionTek 650 TV Tuner || 1 300GB WD Velociraptor || 1TB WD's Black Ed. || LG 22X DVD-Writer || Lite-On 20x DVD-Writer || Corsair CMPSU-1000HX PSU
CPU Loop: DDC-2 w/ XSPC Reservoir Top -> Swiftech GTZ -> Thermochill PA120.3 (Push: 3 Scythe S-Flex G)
GPU Loop: DDC-2 w/ XSPC Reservoir Top -> (Koolance VID-NX295 FC block) ->Thermochill PA120.3 (Push: 3 Scythe S-Flex G)
Chipset Loop: DDC-2 w/ XSPC Reservoir Top -> Alphacool Silentstar Dual HD waterblock enclosure -> Bitspower Black Freezer eVGA x58 MOSFET-> Bitspower Black Freezer eVGA x58 NB -> Thermochill PA120.2 (Pull: 2 Scythe S-Flex G)
2 x Dell 2408FPW LCD || Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 || Logitech G9 Mouse || Logitech G15 LCD Keyboard || Logitech Quickcam Ultravision || Sennheiser Headphones
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