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Thread: Guide: Watercooling: The Basics

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    Guide: Watercooling: The Basics

    I'm bored, and I know that most people are sick of answering the same answer to the same question repeatedly. First I will start with the basics, and then I will move on to equipment.

    Water cooling: The Basics

    Processors draw more and more power, but the melting point of silicone remains the same. Something has to be done. One solution is air cooling- strapping a big heat sink on your CPU, and putting a very loud fan on. However, due the physical limits involved, such as the heat transfer rate of the material, and the limited size, this isn’t always practical, not to mention loud. So, what can be done? You can use heat pipes to spread the heat out more, to get more efficiency out of your heat sink by utilizing all of the surface area, rather than a little bit at the bottom, or, water cooling. Water cooling is, as you may have guessed, the use of water to cool your processor. This offers several advantages, the first being that you can get the heat moving as fast as you want, much faster than with copper, or even diamond, by increasing the flow rate. It also allows you to use a large radiator, and that has a much higher surface area to dissipate heat from than a heat sink could possibly have. It also lets you use larger fans that move more air, with a lot less noise. Alas, nothing is perfect. Water cooling will usually cost more than air cooling, and take up a great deal more room. The cost can be offset by thinking, “Instead of buying a whole new heat sink when I upgrade, I can buy a 10 dollar top for my water block that allows compatibility.” The room thing can’t be fixed, but that isn’t a big issue for most.

    Okay, so now we go into the actual act of water cooling. Basically, you have a water block on the CPU that absorbs heat, and passes it onto the water. Most water blocks are designed in such a way that a lot of heat is transferred to the water, with the use of mazes, that channel the water around, or, more recently, jet impingement, with micro fins. To move water through this water block we use a pump. Well, a pump is the best way, some people use natural water convection, but this isn’t very effective. A pump uses an electric motor to spin an impeller that forces the water through the tubing, and into the water block. Now that we’ve got the heat in the water, we must remove it. We do this with the use of a radiator, and we’ll go into the specifics later. With a radiator, however, the natural convection of the heat isn’t enough for most users, so we connect a fan. 120mm fans can be used, and these cut down on noise, while boosting airflow. A fan has a dead spot so a shroud should be used. Once again, we’ll go into this later. So, after the radiator, the water goes on back to the water block, and begins the cycle again. It doesn’t sound so hard, does it?

    Water blocks:

    This is a chunk of metal that goes on top of your CPU. Its only purpose is to transfer heat from the CPU, to the water, and is probably the most important part of the system. If you want to upgrade, this is the thing to change. They are designed to get optimal heat transfer, and move the heat from the CPU to the water in the most effective way possible. Older style blocks used mazing, or routing the water so it spends more time in the block, to accomplish this. However, recently the White Water water block came out, and this used jet impingement and micro fins. Jet impingement is the use of a decreased barb size to accelerate the water to fairly high speeds, so the water hits the base at a fairly high speed, and carries the heat away quite effectively. Micro fins are tiny fins in the base of the block made to increase both turbulence and surface area.

    The very best water block is the Cascade, and this uses jet impingement with little holes, and corresponding cups in the base of the block. However, this block is not available at the moment, and may not be for quite a while. The White Water comes in next place, and is available for only $50. It has a poor surface finish, and lapping should be done. The Danger Den RBX places somewhere around here, and is, in my opinion at least, a rip off of the White Water, and it isn’t even as good. It’s hard to mount properly, and also has a poor finish, although it isn’t as bad as the White Water’s. The Silverprop Cyclone Evolution blocks are very high quality blocks, right next to the RBX in performance, and they look nice, but they are hard to come by. www.criticool.com is the place to get them in North America at the moment. Swiftech’s block comes in the next position, and is not very restrictive, like all the others listed here.

    For Athlon 64: The RBX and the Swiftech MCW5002 are out, and I advise one of the two. They are pretty much the same, due to the larger die, but I’d still go for the RBX.

    If your water block has 3 barbs, the water goes in the middle, and out the sides, and these come with a Y fitting, that you use to reconnect those barbs.

    http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/wbsum.asp to check for water block ratings. This site is very accurate, and probably the most. Lower C/W is better, along with a lower pressure drop.

    Chipset Water blocks

    These are, as the name implies, water blocks for the Northbridge chipset. I do not feel these are necessary, due to the low heat output of the NB, and the insensitivity to temperature changes (Within reason.) Good air coolers, such as the Swiftech one, will actually outperform water cooling for the NB. NB coolers also hamper the cooling performance of the rest of your system, so your GPU and CPU will suffer. Anyway, there are a variety of chipset coolers, and they all cool pretty much the same. So, you should look for a block with low resistance. For this, I would suggest the PolarFLO GPU/NB block, I think. Or, you may want a cheap block. For this I would recommend the Dtek NB block, or the Swiftech MCW20. If you get the Swiftech, make sure to get tubing adaptors so you can use ½” ID tubing with it.

    GPU block: This is a block for your video card. Unlike the chipset block, this one DOES matter. The GPU block I recommend above all is the Silverprop Fusion block. These are built much the same as Silverprop’s CPU block, but made for the video card. The HL has higher barbs than the SL to avoid hitting RAM sinks. That’s the only difference. Top quality, but they may exceed your price range. If so, look into the MCW50, again with the adaptors, or the Danger Den Maze 4 block.

    Lapping: Lapping is a method of smoothing out your waterblock so that you get better contact with your CPU. To lap, you should get some good quality brand (3M is good) wet-or-dry 600 grit (and possibly higher) sandpaper, a bucket of water with a bit of soap in it, a mirror or piece of glass, the newer the better, and a small damp cloth of some sort. Mark the bottom of the waterblock with an "X" from a felt marker, or, like I do it, squiggle all over, especially in the middle. Find a decently smooth surface, such as a table, and place the damp cloth on it. This is to prevent the glass or mirror from sliding around. Next, place the glass on top of this. Now, wet the sandpaper in the slightly soapy water, as well as your waterblock's base. Place the sandpaper on the mirror, and the waterblock on top. Push the waterblock across the sandpaper, without putting any downwards force on it. Let the weight of the waterblock do the scraping work. After 2-3 minutes, wet the waterblock again, and rotate 90 degrees. Repeat over and over, until all the felt marks are completely gone. It should now be flat. If you are really freaky about the smoothness of this, then you should do this process again with higher grit sandpaper, however, be warned that anything over 600 grit has extremely diminishing returns. Anything over 600 grit probably won't do much at all.

    Pumps:

    These move your water through your tubing. I’m not sure about the specifics of the inner workings of these, but it involves a spinning magnet. Pumps have three ratings: Flow; measured at 0’ head resistance, due to this it has very little bearing on the performance of the pump, but the higher the better anyway. Head pressure; measured in feet H2O or metres H2O. This is the most important number, as we have got a lot of resistance in our systems. The higher the pressure, the better it is. We’ve also got heat; this is the amount of energy the pump draws, and it transfers most of the drawn heat to the water. Important! The power rating is only accurate at 100% flow, which is impossible to get in a water cooling system. This is dependant upon flow, so a low flow pump will have a lower heat rating than a high flow pump, but in a system, due to the resistance, and the lowered flow, the heat drawn is much lower than its rated number.

    I think I’ll make this fairly accurate generalization right now. ALL standard pumps perform the same. By standard, I mean the 300GPH pumps with at least 6feet head pressure, or ~150+ GPH pumps with ~11+ feet pressure. In a typical system, consisting of a Procore and a White Water, there will be NO measurable difference between these pumps. The differences get larger with more blocks, and more resistance, but they’re still very small. With that said, I consider the Mag 3 the best pump out there. It has the best flow, but that is balanced by its high heat, it has a three year warranty, it’s relatively quiet, and it’s only 40 dollars. Use an unrestricted inlet, preferably 5/8” ID or higher. It doesn’t come with barbs, but you can get them free from the sticky in this section. The Mag 3 has minor problems with leaks, but these are correctable with Teflon tape, an O-ring, or a lot of sealant. The Iwakis are the cream of the pump crop. The MD20RLZT provides the most pressure of any pump, with a fair amount of flow at all of the levels. It has slightly higher heat than any pump listed here, but its high flow can probably compensate for that. It is quiet, and, like all Iwakis, is high quality, and incredibly expensive. It is highly suggested if you don’t mind paying a lot, but be warned, it is large and probably won’t fit in your case. The MCP 600 is the best or second best performing pump out there, barring the Iwakis, despite its small maximum flow, due to its high head pressure, and incredibly low heat. It is 12VDC, so it plugs into your power supply, and sucks up to 0.75amps. Form your own opinions about that. It is a quiet pump. It costs upwards of 70 dollars. The Eheim 1250 is a very high quality pump, albeit with worse performance (Once again, it doesn’t matter) than the other options. It runs at about 60 dollars, and is quiet. I suggest this pump for longevity, or in a situation that any minor failure is catastrophic. I have never heard of ANY problem with this pump. The Danger Den DD-D4 pump is a high performance pump, with flow rivaling that of the Mag 3, but with about ½ the heat. This is probably the highest performing non-Iwaki pump out there, but is 12VDC, and sucks up to 1.5 amps. Once again, form your own opinion. This pump is noisy, and costs 75 dollars at the moment. I wouldn’t advise it. The Hydor L30 is becoming a worse and worse option, but is small, outperforms the Eheim 1250 (Once again, does not matter) and fairly quiet. A few problems have been reported with this pump. It sells for around 50 dollars. The Via Aqua 1300 is the cheapest pump out there. It is high heat, noisy, and low quality. The only reason I would advise this pump is if price were a serious issue.

    Radiators:

    Radiators are used to dissipate heat. A radiator usually consists of a large amount of very small, flat tubes, with fins attached to increase heat dissipation. There are used in cars, for the main radiator, and the heater core. This is the best kind of radiator, (I, and many others, refer to this kind of radiator as a heater core style radiator) but there are two others. The main alternative radiator type is the winding tube radiator. It involves a (You guessed it!) winding tube, with fins attached to increase heat dissipation. These are generally used in phase change coolers, where the objective is to get the liquid as cool as possible, rather than getting as much liquid as possible fairly cool, and aren’t very good for our purposes. They restrict flow a lot, and are usually more expensive than heater cores, and don’t dissipate the heat as effectively. The stacked plate radiator is built very similar to the heater core style radiator, but uses wide, flat tubes as the primary heat dissipation thing, sometimes with fins between them, rather than using the fins as the main way to dissipate the heat. It seems that these would as good as heater cores at cooling, but due to availability and price concerns, these aren’t used.

    The heater core from an ’86 Chevette is what you should buy. It has very good performance, low pressure drop, and a damned good price (Around 20 dollars in an auto parts store.) It does, though, have one 5/8” barb, and one ¾” barb, so you have to change them out, or stretch your tubing over it. The ¾” one will be tough to stretch your tubing over. You can buy a shroud already made from Dtek for this radiator. If you don’t want to mod the radiator yourself, you can just buy a Dtek Procore for 12 dollars more. This is about 7X6”, so it won’t perfectly fit where a 120mm fan would fit. A better choice than either of those, though, would be a single pass heater core from a ’76 Chevy truck without air conditioning, but it is much larger (12”X6”) and slightly more expensive. Also, you cannot buy a shroud for it, already made. www.airspirit.net to choose your own heater core, so it is perfect for your situation. Now, there are also the made-for-PC options. The Black Ice Extreme is the most commonly used of these. It fits where a 120mm fan fits, and fits a 120mm fan without a shroud (Shrouds are still good.) Its performance is second to the Procore, but it costs a lot more, and restricts flow more. There is also the Black Ice Extreme II, which is twice as big, and that performs better than the Procore, but once again it costs more. They also come in an 80mm size, and a 160X80mm size. There are also the Thermochills. They come in a bunch of sizes: 80mm, 92mm, 120mm, 240X120mm, and 360X120mm. The 240X120 and 360X120 both outperform the standard heater core, but I doubt they outperform the 10X6 single pass. Do NOT buy radiators smaller than 120X120. That is just high temperatures, wasted money, and a lot of frustration waiting to happen. Do NOT buy a Black Ice Pro. It is a VERY poor performer. Do NOT buy a Swiftech 676 radiator. It may be massive, but it’s a terrible cooler. Do NOT buy a winding tube radiator. Once again, a bad cooler.

    Shrouds: Shrouds are used to attach the fan to the radiator, and to distance the fan from the radiator as well. You want one that spaces the fan at least 1” away, and, naturally, it should fit. If you have a Procore, or a heater core of the same size, this could be useful: http://www.overclockers.com/tips1138/

    Fans: Fans use a DC motor in the middle of the fan, with blades on the outside to move air. You want 120mm fans, or larger, because they don’t have to rotate very quickly to move as much air. Basically, get the fan that moves the most air for your noise tolerance. If it’s really low, get a “silent” fan. If it’s really high, get a fan that moves 190CFM. 70CFM should be considered a minimum air movement speed.

    Filling and bleeding the system: There are two main ways to fill/bleed your system, the reservoir, and the teeline. A reservoir is a large holding tank for water, and it usually has a place in which to put the water. The easiest way to fill and bleed the system, but it consumes space, and costs money. A teeline is simply a tee somewhere in your system, with a long piece of straight tubing sticking out the top. This is cheap, and saves space. I advise a reservoir if you have the space.

    Bay Reservoirs have been improving recently, but I still don't trust them. If they're the only reservoir that fits your system, go for it. If you don't want to submerge your pump, you can either use a PVC reservoir, or another good option is the Criticool Waterplant. It is high quality with multiple barb configurations. Submerging your pump drastically improves your flow, but there are no commercial options, so the best method is to put it in a small Tupperware container, and then fix it up so it can close.

    Tubing: This is what the water flows through. Larger ID is better, but ½” is standard, so it is easiest. You want thick walled tubing (1/8”, ¾” OD for ½” tubing) to avoid kinking.

    Tygon is the preferred type of tubing, but it offers very little advantage for its cut throat price, of around $2.60 per foot. Clearflex 60 is next, very similar to Tygon, a little less flexible and stretchy, but it shouldn’t be a problem. Next in line is tubing from the good ol’ Home Depot. Look at the tubing there, and make sure it isn’t squished, or pre-kinked. It is cheap, and easy to get.

    Clamps: These are NOT optional. Put these on every barb, and prevent leaks long before they start. There are two kinds, these being, steel worm drive, and nylon hose clamps. Steel worm drive clamps are tightened with a screwdriver, are durable, and hold very well. The nylon hose clamps are put on with pliers, are plastic, and hold well enough. I advise buying steel worm drive clamps, available at Home Depot.

    Cooling Fluid: For best heat transfer/heat capacity, nothing beats pure water. However, it is best to add 5% Water Wetter to prevent organic growth and corrosion. Water Wetter DOES stain your tubing, eventually, and may even cause problems. While these problems are rare, they can be avoided. Next to Water Wetter there are a variety of other things that perform fairly closely, the most popular being Zerex racing fluid and Swiftech HydrX. Antifreeze is not good for computer cooling, as it is viscous, has poor cooling capabilities, and does not lubricate as the others do.

    Water chilling: Now we are getting out of the basics, and more into the advanced usage of a watercooling system. Chilling is to make your water cooler than its surroundings. This is usually done with a phase change unit, such as a fridge, air conditioner, or dehumidifyer. DO NOT USE A MINIFRIDGE! THIS IS ALWAYS THE FIRST QUESTION EVERYONE ASKS! It will not hold up to the load. An air conditioner over 5000 BTU will usually cut it, and keep your water nice and cool. A 40 pint dehumidifier should also work.To get this to chill your water, you should gut it, and put the cooling coils from the unit in your reservoir, or, build a new reservoir. This will probably require you to build an out-of-case place for your stuff. Now: That's the easy part. Now, you need to condensation proof your motherboard. You need hose insulators, and something to insulate your waterblock. While chilling, the water may come to a lower temperature than 0 degrees Celcius. For those of you who don't know, that is frozen water. So, we need to add something with a lower freezing point, such as our good friend alcohol, or antifreeze. However, antifreeze has TERRIBLE cooling capacities, so alcohol/water or just plain windshield wiper fluid is what you should probably go for.

    TECs: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.c...&threadid=36894 This guide will give you all the information you need, about the actual TEC. It doesn't say how to cool the hotside, other than water, and it doesn't recommend parts. Swiftech has a very easy to use TEC waterblock, the MCW-462UHT. It has 1/2" ID barbs, so the fact that it is Swiftech is nullified. The DD Maze 4 is a good waterblock for TEC use, and the DD coldplate clamps to the top for good heat transfer between Coldplate, TEC, and waterblock, but it isn't as easy to use as the Swiftech. Use a 226W TEC to get nice temperatures, but for a quick, easy improvement, I would just use a 169W or so TEC. You won't break the bank buying a PSU, and you won't have to go second-hand. You will still get 10-12 degrees better, if you have decent cooling for the hotside. Some people don't think you should have a TEC directly on your processor, but, some people think water cooling is a bad idea. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong, I'm just saying they really aren't too extreme. You will need to protect from condensation, and, using closed cell foam, or neoprene, this is relatively simple. I don't want to complicate my life too much by explaining, so I will just provide this link: http://www.swiftnets.com/socketsealing.htm I trust Swiftech enough to let them condensation proof it.

    TEC power supplies: It's simple, really. There are Meanwells. Meanwells are not great. Sure, they fit easily within your unmodded case, but they run hot, and they cost $120! 120! Good regular power supplies, that provide enough amps, are good TEC PSUs. You should use at the VERY least a PSU with 25 amps on the 12v line for a 226W, and at least an 18 amps one for a 169W unit. Shroomer advises a 34A for the 226, and at least 25 amps for a 169, to keep the PSU at an optimal load. This will extend the life of your power supply. On the minus side, you will have to mod your case, or put your extra PSU externally to fit it. ATX PSU's won't start normally unless the motherboard is connected, but that it avoidable. Take a paper clip, and stick one end in the green wire thing. Put the other end in a black one. It should now start. You might want to tape up the paperclip so you don't get shocked, at some point or another.

    One more thing: DO NOT BUY A KIT! I WILL TRACK YOU DOWN AND BRAND "MORON" ON YOU IF YOU BUY A KIT!

    If you can customize the thing, with good components, and it will be cheaper, go for it. The Flowmaster XT is the best example of this.

    Real reasons not to buy a kit:
    1. The best kit is worse than the best aircooling.
    2. They are expensive for what you get. In fact, they're just plain expensive.
    3. Very little upgradeability. If you decide you want to switch to a White Water or a PolarFLO, or a better radiator, you will have to use really small fittings, or change everything else.
    4. This is an extension of 3. They come with crappy parts. No part of the system is better than the parts you could get custom.
    5. Some of them are rather loud.
    6. Some of them require installation anyway! (Come on, people,where's the advantage?)

    What to buy:
    For those of you too lazy to make your own decision, here's my advice that I would give you in a thread.
    Cheap: Via Aqua 1300 (You might as well go for the Mag 3, for 15 bucks more), Whitewater, Heater core, Tupperware for shroud and reservoir, Home Depot tubing, 120mm fan, and hose clamps. This may be above your budget, which most people put at around 100 dollars for a cheap watercooling, but, spending the extra 20 or 30 bucks now will be worth it.
    Good: Mag 3, Whitewater, Heater core or Procore (same thing, more expensive) shroud, Clearflex 60 or Home Depot tubing, 120mm fan, and hose clamps.
    Excellent: Mag 3, Whitewater, Heater core or Procore, shroud, Tygon or Clearflex 60, 120mm fan, and hose clamps.
    These are just general guidelines, some of you may like to cheap out on tubing, but go crazy on the pump, or do some such thing.

    That's pretty much all there is to it. If I made any errors, or omissions, do not be afraid to let me know.
    If you want to get a more advanced understanding of water cooling, check this site: http://thermal-management-testing.com/ and read BillA’s comments about testing, and water cooling in general. Very informative. Also decent is http://www.overclockers.com/topicli...WATER%20COOLING The more recent articles should be considered more accurate.
    Last edited by AngryAlpaca; 03-01-2004 at 07:43 PM.

  2. #2
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    Looks good. Dont feel like reading it all tho

    Might want to add that anything you use in a chiller to get bellow 0C is probley dangerous if you breath it so you should seal your res?

    And dont you need to load the 5V on an ATX pelt PSU or it will burn out?
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    Why would something used to get below 0C dangerous? Are you talking methanol? I'm not sure about the 5V, does anyone have any information on this?

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    I read the thread and agreed with all of it except the antifreeze statement. Can you back that up with some hard facts as I have read of many people using it with good success. Only thing I have heard about water wetter is that it helps with bubbles....but I could be wrong.

    Dont many of the good sites sell Zerex, which is antifreeze if I am not mistaken...but I read somewhere that Zerex is actually a type of water wetter. Can anyone using it verify this.

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    This is really a great thread for all newbs that wants to get into watercooling but I have one little correction! your GFX memory can be watercooled!

    I found these : http://www.bsmultimedia.dk/info.php?id=299

    http://www.bsmultimedia.dk/info.php?id=298

    but anyway keep up the good work
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    I think the problem with antifreeze is that the users think that it's good enough. It doesn't offer the same corrosion protection, lubrication, and it doesn't reduce the surface tension like WW does. I think Zerex may be a good choice. Brainfreeze: Those blocks cool your GPU as well. Your GPU needs better cooling than aluminum.

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    Gotcha, and surface tension is a big deal if you got tons of bubbles.

    How about mixing the 2?

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    I want to know where i can get a prommie for $200 and kits are great for a guy that is new to watercooling...

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    If you get a prommie for $200, but me one to would ya.

    Dont think I have ever seen a prommie that cheap that was a running model.

    As far as kits go...ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    Kits are only good if you are to lazy to do research as they really restrict what you can with your rig. Not to mention that for a wee bit more money you can put together a much better setup.

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    A prommie for $200? Hook us all up! Kits are terrible in ALL situations, unless parts are unavailable, and you don't want aircooling whatsoever. Boom: If you have Water Wetter in your system, it does everything antifreeze does, but with much less. Antifreeze's main purpose is to prevent freezing or boiling, and, apparently, it does help with corrosion. However, it is more viscous than water, and that hurts.

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    Looks pretty nice there AngryAlpaca.

    Stuck.

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    I applaud your efforts, but very biased and opinionated.

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    Can you elaborate, Karnivore? I've tried to rate everything on its technical merits, not on my opinions.

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    Then, after you've realized that with the cost of a watercooling system, TEC, and a Meanwell, you could've just bought a Prommie
    My tec and meanwell was under $200 you tell me where to get the $200 prommie, already had the water cooling kit as do most people that go on to tec cooling...
    As for kits an absolute noob would be better off getting a kit, less mistakes to be made, and they usually come with Pictures, who reads the directions anyway...

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    And from what I've heard of iwakis is that they run very hot don't know for fact, but have read that more than once...

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    Oh. I see. Your TEC, meanwell, blocks, pump, radiator and tubing probably cost a fair bit, but I wrote that long before I realized how much a prommy was. There's no blushing emoticon. Fixed.

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    Don't get me wrong, thats a great effort, and as I said, I applaud your work, Just that when you make claims of superior, or terrible performance, bad choice for a particular application, ETC. It would be nice to supply a link, or provide some other form supporting evidence. Without such supporting evidence, its all just opinion. Granted some of your opinions are common knowledge to Experienced folks, but your target audience is not experienced.

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    The unfortunate thing is, you're partially correct. There are dozens of reviews out there for pretty much everything there is, and I've taken it upon myself to sort through what's good and what's bad. There is, alas, no way to get it all 100% accurate unless I can get BillA to test everything... And even then, you have to consider the items price, performance, tube-staining, noise, how it would affect one's individual system, all of that stuff is hard to sort through, and I haven't got a single link that can answer any of these questions. However, based on feedback at forums.extremeoverclocking.com I believe this is fairly accurate. If there is anything incorrect, I invite you to discuss this with me.

  19. #19
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    Angry I have actually also seen a shop in germany that sells memory blocks for your gfx but i cant remember the url so I found those innovatek blocks instead....and yes they do cool your memory
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    That's not what I meant. I meant that it did cool your GPU, but, it was made of aluminum, and was probably a poor performer. I added the block you were referring to, but I don't think it's a good idea, seeing as it's aluminum, expensive, and your RAM doesn't need better than passive cooling.
    Last edited by AngryAlpaca; 01-05-2004 at 07:05 PM.

  21. #21
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    they actually also manufacture these! http://www.innovatek.de/contentServ/.../500747_kl.jpg <---- they are for memory only!
    -=Back In Business=-

  22. #22
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    Somr emore Aussie Blocks
    Silverprop HL GPU Block: Being revied soon
    Silverprop Nexus LX

    Ripping it up on old technology
    i4memory.com

  23. #23
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    Oh yeah, about those GPU blocks. How do they perform? What does the inside look like? I'm quite impressed by the Cyclone Evolution, and I was wondering how those did. What's this Nexus LX? Silverprop's site doesn't show much information.
    Last edited by AngryAlpaca; 01-12-2004 at 08:00 PM.

  24. #24
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    Aaah when ill get them ill give you some pics.

    The hl is a good performer, review come up soon. The sl is being reviewed at www.planetmodz.net

    Ripping it up on old technology
    i4memory.com

  25. #25
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    Oops. I forgot to update this one. Updated.

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