Recent water block (GT/Fuzion/Storm) test results...

[virtualrain]

Here is a summary of the recent Fuzion, Apogee GT, and Storm test results that I've found to date...

Notes:
- If multiple mounts were done and results provided, I've indicated that and averaged the mounts/runs.
- Review the test methodology details and test result details by clicking the links
- All values are in deg C unless otherwise stated
- DT Values are from Core Temp to Air (unless otherwise stated)
- Quad core load temps as reported by core temp or TAT were averaged by the testers and sometimes the difference between cores was as much as 10 deg C. According to Philly_boy lapping seemed to reduce difference in cores significantly.


H20 Frag-monger (Apogee vs. Storm R2 vs. Fuzion)
CPU: X6800 OC to 3.8GHz
WC Gear: MCP-655, MCR-220
Test SW: TAT
DT Results: Apogee = 55.8, Storm = 51.7, Fuzion = 49.5
Winner: Fuzion beats Apogee by 6.3 and Storm by 2.2
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=152

H20 Frag-monger (Apogee vs. Storm R2 vs. Fuzion)
CPU: N/A - 30x30mm 100W die
WC Gear: Lytron chiller
Test SW: N/A
DT Results: N/A (C/W Curves)
C/W Results @ 1GPM: Apogee = 0.064, Storm = 0.059, Fuzion = 0.057
Pressure Drop @ 1GPM: Apogee = 2PSI, Storm = 5PSI, Fuzion = 0.5PSI
C/W Winner: @100W/1GPM Fuzion beats Apogee by 0.7 and Storm by 0.2
PSI Winner: @1GPM Fuzion has 25% and 10% of the pressure drop of Apogee/Storm
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=304

Nikhsub1 (Storm G5 vs. Fuzion vs Apogee GT)
CPU: E6700 OC to 3.85GHz @ 1.56Vcore
WC Gear: 2xDDC Ultra, PA-120.3
Test SW: TAT
DT Results (avg of 3 mounts each): Storm G5 = 39.08, Fuzion = 43.06, Apogee GT (flat) = 44.54
Mount variation in DT: Storm 2 deg, Fuzion 2 deg, Apogee GT = 4.5 deg
Winner: Storm G5 beats Fuzion by 3.98 and Apogee GT by 5.46
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&postcount=10

FreeCableGuy (Storm R2 vs Apogee vs Fuzion vs Apogee GT)
CPU: X3220 Quad Core
WC Gear: D5, PA120.3
Test SW: Prime95 x4
DT Results (@150W): Apogee = 25, Storm = 26.5, Fuzion = 24, Apogee GT 24
Winner: Fuzion and Apogee GT very close and beat Apogee by 1 and Storm by 2.5 (@150W)
Link1: http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=85
Link2: http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=78
Link3: http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=84

Philly_Boy CES Showdown Part 1 (Apogee GT vs. Fuzion)
CPU: X6700 Quad Core OC to 3.6GHz @ 1.425Vcore
WC Gear: MCP-655, MCR-320
Test SW: CPU Burn 5
DT Results: Apogee GT (Bow?) = 42.1 (1 run), Fuzion = 38.2 (avg. of 3 runs on 2 mounts)
Winner: Fuzion beats Apogee GT (Bow?) by 3.9
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...0&postcount=84

Philly_Boy CES Showdown Part 2 (Apogee GT vs. Fuzion)
CPU: X6700 Quad Core (lapped) OC to 3.466GHz @ 1.5Vcore
WC Gear: MCP-655, MCR-320
Test SW: CPU Burn 5
DT Results: Apogee GT (flat) = 41.7, Apogee GT (Bow) = 34.1, Fuzion = 37.3 (using D-Tek mounting hardware and methods)
Winner: Apogee GT (Bow) beats Apogee GT (flat) by 7.6 and Fuzion by 3.2
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=130142

Shamino (VR-Zone) (Apogee GT vs. Storm Vs. MCP-05 Pro)
CPU: X6700 Quad Core OC to 3.615GHz @ 1.7Vcore
WC Gear: D5, 2x120mm Rad?
Test SW: CPU Burn
DT Results (from Asus Probe): Apogee GT (flat) = 58, Storm = 60, MCP-05 Pro = 56
Winner: MCP-05 Pro beats GT (flat) by 2 and Storm by 4
Link: http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4476&s=1

Budwise (Storm G4 R1 vs. Fuzion)
CPU: E6600 OC to 3.6GHz @ 1.45Vcore
WC Gear: MCP-655, PA120.3
Test SW: Orthos
DT Results (from CoreTemp): Storm = 54, Fuzion = 51
Winner: Fuzion beats Storm by 3
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&postcount=30

Philly_Boy (Apogee GT vs Fuzion)
CPU: E6300 OC to 3.7GHz @ 1.6V Vcore
WC Gear: MCP-355, PA120.3
Test SW: TAT
DT Results (from CoreTemp): Fuzion = 37, Apogee GT = 34
Winner: Apogee GT (Bow) beats Fuzion by 3
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=54

David D. at CoolingMasters.com (Rosco?) (No Fuzion tested)
CPU: E6300 OC to 3.01GHz @ 1.59 Vcore
WC Gear: AquaX150Z, MCR220
Test SW: TAT
DT Results Original IHS (Core to Water @ 350lph): Apogee = 47.1, Apogee GT = 44.4, Apogee GT (bow) = 42.1, Storm = 49.6, MP-05 SP = 48
Winner: Apogee GT (bow) beats Apogee by 5, GT Flat by 2.3, Storm by 7.5, MP-05 by 5.9
Link (translated): http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

Kunaak (Fuzion vs Storm)
CPU: X3210 (quad core) OC to 3.6GHz@ 1.48V Vcore
WC Gear: MCP-655, Old BIX Extreme(?)
Test SW: Wprime
DT Results (Avg. from TAT): Fuzion = 42.9, Storm= 52.8
Winner: Fuzion beats Storm by 9.9
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=136703

To see results of a MCW6002a compared with a Fuzion see post #59

My conclusions so far:

Given the fact that all tests by the same testers varied by up to 2-4 degrees just by remounting or doing another run and the fact that all blocks are typically within a few degrees of each other (and often much less) I would say it's impossible to declare any block definitively superior to another so far.

Given this, I think any testing without multiple and equal number of remounts for each block can be very misleading. For example, Nikhsub1's tests show that the Fuzion could win by 4 degrees or lose by 1 degree to the GT depending on which mount and run you used to compare. With the mount making as much as a 5 degree difference on blocks that typically only differ by a couple of degrees it makes drawing conclusions from limited runs/mounts dubious at best.

The only thing that everyone seems to agree on is that the Fuzion flows significantly better than any other CPU block giving it a distinct advantage in multi-block loop performance.

BTW, if I've made a mistake in summarizing the results or there are other tests that can be added to the list above, please let me know. Keep in mind that if multiple runs or mounts were reported, I averaged the results of those runs/mounts in the summaries above.

[redcorn]

I agree with your assessment both Apogee GT and Fuzion blocks are so good either one is a good choice but as I have found out lapping the CPU makes them even better as seen at the swifttech challenge. Here is my review of the fuzion after installing, now I am not afraid of summer time temps with OCd quad core.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=131298

[epion2985]

Clearly we should all get G7's and call it a day lol...

[Pete]

The mount..is this with better bolts being used?

[CedricFP]

The fact that it is apparent no clear winner has emerged...

[BGP Spook]

The world would be a better place if more people understood statistics.

This is not a dig at the OP, I agree with him.

I don't think all of the reviews are complete in part because they haven't accounted for the mounting variations mentioned.

What is needed is at least 50 different tests each with the same blocks and different mounts. So the same 10 blocks with different reviews, for example, but each block is remounted five different times.

The aggregate data can then be analyzed and the spread can be computed.

Here is an old but fair example of testing methodology.

[Varsos]

Why isn't anybody focusing on mounting between Storm vs MCP-05 Pro.......???
But of course............ because nobody touches the Storm.
And now that Swiftech has a new block that from day one has to be modded to give equal or better results compared to another contender, a lot of people are talking about bad mounting.
Excuse me but if a block can not be mounted properly isn't that a defect for that block?Or do i have to be a GURU of mounting just to mount a waterblock? If the block's base is flat or concave(Apogee GT) isn't that Swiftech's design or fault?
Why for some people is so dificult to believe that maybe just maybe there is a better block out there, better than Swiftech's blocks?

[Evanesco]

Why isn't anybody focusing on mounting between Storm vs MCP-05 Pro.......???
But of course............ because nobody touches the Storm.
And now that Swiftech has a new block that from day one has to be modded to give equal or better results compared to another contender, a lot of people are talking about bad mounting.
Excuse me but if a block can not be mounted properly isn't that a defect for that block?Or do i have to be a GURU of mounting just to mount a waterblock? If the block's base is flat or concave(Apogee GT) isn't that Swiftech's design or fault?
Why for some people is so dificult to believe that maybe just maybe there is a better block out there, better than Swiftech's blocks?

I would to ask that exact same thing.
According to VR-Zones review, the MP-05 was the best block.

[virtualrain]

Keep in mind the VR-Zones review is perhaps the most flawed of all. It didn't mount the blocks multiple times or even do multiple runs and it used ASUS Probe for the temperatures!?

I suspect that the MP-05 is right up there with the other blocks... like I said, they are all within a few degrees of each other and when subjected to variations in mounting, real world loops, etc. all perform similarly well.

[redcorn]

Clearly we should all get G7's and call it a day lol...

Ive looked online cant find where you could buy the G5 or G7.

[redcorn]

Oh man, and I just purchased an Apogee GT over a D-Tek Fusion

I do take solace is the fact that it is apparent no clearn winner has emerged...

Have you checked your mother board for bowing? The convex shape of my Fuzion block was enough to cause bowing with minimal pressure from the pressure bolts. The Apogee has a greater bow to the base then the Fuzion block does with the fatter O ring installed. See my pic here and check your motherboard.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post1970470

[redcorn]

Why isn't anybody focusing on mounting between Storm vs MCP-05 Pro.......???
But of course............ because nobody touches the Storm.
And now that Swiftech has a new block that from day one has to be modded to give equal or better results compared to another contender, a lot of people are talking about bad mounting.
Excuse me but if a block can not be mounted properly isn't that a defect for that block?Or do i have to be a GURU of mounting just to mount a waterblock? If the block's base is flat or concave(Apogee GT) isn't that Swiftech's design or fault?
Why for some people is so dificult to believe that maybe just maybe there is a better block out there, better than Swiftech's blocks?

Both the Apogee GT and DTEK Fuzion have convex bases. The Apogee GT comes shipped with flat base to start but if you want to make it convex for better temps you add the fatter O ring to bow the base. This bowing of the cpu water block bases is going to cause lots of bowing in the motherboards too! The water block companies should send out a back plate so the motherboard does not bow.

[Fairydust]

Why isn't anybody focusing on mounting between Storm vs MCP-05 Pro.......???
But of course............ because nobody touches the Storm.
And now that Swiftech has a new block that from day one has to be modded to give equal or better results compared to another contender, a lot of people are talking about bad mounting.
Excuse me but if a block can not be mounted properly isn't that a defect for that block?Or do i have to be a GURU of mounting just to mount a waterblock? If the block's base is flat or concave(Apogee GT) isn't that Swiftech's design or fault?
Why for some people is so dificult to believe that maybe just maybe there is a better block out there, better than Swiftech's blocks?

Mounting variations has been criticized in the past, its not a new point. Some die-sims do take this issue seriously and (plan to) use or varying methods to minimize the effects, from centrally applied weights, 2 to designs with load cells measuring the force applied to the die.

With "bowed" bases and bumpy IHS this issue plays a much bigger role. How do you measure the actual block performance when the mounting methods create a larger tolerance than internal design?

[Pen3]

Iam surprised MCP-05 Pro is up there, yet seems like its the underdog since nobody talks about it anymore ever since GT and Fuzion is out. I wonder if the MCP-05 LE gets 1C or better temp?

[Lurid]

Considering the small tolerances that constitute the "best" components, I wouldn't worry too much. Personally I prefer the Apogee at the moment, because its cheaper and seems easier to get your hands on.

[Varsos]

With "bowed" bases and bumpy IHS this issue plays a much bigger role. How do you measure the actual block performance when the mounting methods create a larger tolerance than internal design?

So you mean that you can't compare two waterblocks that have different mounting methods?
Sorry but when i buy a block iam using it's own mounting kit and i want to know it's performance compared to another block with it's own mounting kit too.
Now if one of the two blocks has better mounting method then for me the credits go to that waterblock or even the company that designed it.

[virtualrain]

So you mean that you can't compare two waterblocks that have different mounting methods?

At least according to the test results I compiled above, even the same block, mounted using the same mechanism, mounted in the same way, by the same person, on the same system, did not even provide consistent performance from one mount to the next.

[Fairydust]

So you mean that you can't compare two waterblocks that have different mounting methods?
Sorry but when i buy a block iam using it's own mounting kit and i want to know it's performance compared to another block with it's own mounting kit too.
Now if one of the two blocks has better mounting method then for me the credits go to that waterblock or even the company that designed it.

If there was a mounting mechanism that consistently gave the same performance on different platforms of the same type I'd agree, even on the exact same platform it's a feat. Tests with a single mounts are luck of the draw.

[redcorn]

At least according to the test results I compiled above, even the same block, mounted using the same mechanism, mounted in the same way, by the same person, on the same system, did not even provide consistent performance from one mount to the next.

I plan on mounting mine at least three times and see if I can get lower temps then now. The first mount that gives a lower temp then the one I have now Ill just keep. Im gonna wait a week in between mounts to let the ACS5 break in.

[CedricFP]

Have you checked your mother board for bowing? The convex shape of my Fuzion block was enough to cause bowing with minimal pressure from the pressure bolts. The Apogee has a greater bow to the base then the Fuzion block does with the fatter O ring installed. See my pic here and check your motherboard.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post1970470

I do plan on testing both bowed and flat bases, with several remounts. What I do need to do is find a backplate for the motherboard, for fear of bowing it too much and kaput.

I'm rather happy with the performance results of the Apogee GT, particularly for the (rather cheap) price. I am hearing that a lot of retail GT's didn't come with the fatter gasket, though, and that is scaring me a little.

Living in Hong Kong, for anything in America to get shipped here it can take at least 7 days... a real PITA when being forced to wait.

[Vice]

Clearly we should all get G7's and call it a day lol...

Amen.

[h20 frag-monger]

i just got my apogee gt today, it looks good, some small pins in there, i wish it had a thiner base (3mm compared to fuzions 1.5mm)...it came with the extra oring, damn it took along time to put that oring in (took an hour, the dam thing is just too big for the groove) anyway...after puting it back togeter i could really notice a bow...the fuzion definly does not have nearly this much bow...i wonder if some more bow was induced into the fuzion if it would perform better,...im gonna run another set of tests:

1. Apogee GT

2. Apogee GT Bowed (nikhsub1, im a little worried to break my MB or CPU by moutintg this, anything i should no? i will be using the springs so im hoping that will help)

3. Fuzion

4. Fuzion with a nozzel ( i have made 2 diffrent ones)

[TheReds]

could you give us a little more info on the nozzles??

peace

[virtualrain]

What I do need to do is find a backplate for the motherboard, for fear of bowing it too much and kaput.

im a little worried to break my MB or CPU by moutintg this, anything i should no? i will be using the springs so im hoping that will help

Check out Redcorn's solution... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=131415

[epion2985]

Ive looked online cant find where you could buy the G5 or G7.

That was sort of a joke. The G5 and G7 blocks are made by cathar, they are a refined version of the storm with a silver base that he never stops perfecting. Pretty much the best you can get and not cheap. However they are not for general public purchase. He only makes a batch when he has time and only for limited sale to limited people he chooses.

The mount..is this with better bolts being used?

No its just a bigger o-ring. It causes the base to bow a little and seems to improve performance.