Winchester 90nm and Prime95

[kryptobs2000]

as i posted before, my week 33 3200+ primes fine so im not sure if it's as simple as pre wk 41 vs post wk 41 (and it's not just wk 41 afaik).

AMD A64 DH8-D0 3200+@2.4ghz (240x10@1.475v)

You never took it over 250mhz tho, which is often where the problem shows up, usually between 250-260. Some showup at 200mhz but either way. See if you can get it past 250mhz if ur ram can take it.

[halcyon]

SUMMARY so far:

Prime95 is ok. If you fail to understand this, read the whole thread again and concentrate on constancy, repeatability and accurate predictability of the the errors (failures here are not accurately predictable, hence problem is in hardware).

Most A64s seem to be ok. At least some are provenly ok. They pass lots of prime95 testing at stock and overclocked speeds.

Some 90nm Winchester A64s appear to be failing at stock speeds. It is still not known if this is 100% due to the A64s themselves, or an an incompatibility between some A64s, some motherboards and/or some memory modules.

Also, it is important to notice that:

This thread should concentrate on problems with certain weekd code of 90nm Winchester A64 failing at stock speed, regardless of memory modules (default latencies) and Mobo model (def bios settings) used. The defining words are: stock speed.

Don't confuse it by talking about stability at overclocked speeds or too tight latencies.

If something fails at beyond stock speed, it is more than likely the problem of the hardware stability (cpu, mem, controller or fluctuations in other pars of circuitry). Also, it does NOT help to debug this problem of failures at stock speed!

We are only concerned with STOCK speed here.

So, Prime95 is ok (in regards to this problem), but perhaps not all AMD A64s (certain week code) are not.

Just "perhaps" though, I at least haven't seen enough information to support a definitive conclusion.

People who fail their A64 90nm Winchesters at stock speed, would really do everybody a favour, if they could test the same cpu with various different motherboards and memory sticks at stock speed. Of course, this is a lot of work, so I can't demand that of anyone. Still, it would help a lot.

Only by doing futher testing is it possible to assess whether there are actually defective A64 chips in the circulation that are not fit for stable use even at stock speed.

Here 'stable use' means calculations of ANY type that are of legal type for the cpu in question and which should NOT result in a failure.

My own hunch is that the problems are due to component tolerancies and incompatibilities and there could be some defective A64s in the circulation as well, in the sense that they are _overly_ sensitive to the components they are paired with (mobos, psus, dimms, etc.)

regards,
halcyon

PS If you have trouble understanding why prime95 or some other piece of scientific calculations that uses self-testing iterative calculation can fail, while almost all other apps work ok, then I suggest you pick up a basic computer science book and look up algorithmic accuracy as implemented in modern processors...

[andyOCZ]

OK... you are probably correct. I only have ONE winnie to play with. However many people and complain and don't configure there RAM correctly. The winnies, mine in any case does NOT like it much when two sticks are used so using AUTO or SPD in BIOS is a guarantie that it will not post or be verry unstable. I have played with both Corsair and Mushkin and results are similar...

The whole point was that most of us are using good quality matched dual channel kits. All of my memory had been pre-tested P95 stable on many platforms. I also have more RAM available to me than most for testing.

So, setting proven memory up properly on a proven board (P95 24 hours with a 4000+) with loose memory timings, agressive chipset timings off and having P95 fail at 200fsb indicates a REAL issue.

So far it seems mostly the cores used in week 37 are the problem.

[v142]

I think if we are gonna come anyway farher with this we need too get some more struckture on this tread, look at my previous post link
from reading trou this tread I belive we are talkin about 2-3 CPUs that are failing prime95 at stock speed, where:
- one has been RMA
- one was ok, when goop was applied under northbridge
- one unknown status.

If these are the only chips that fails on "stock speed" people are makin a too big case out of this, just think of how many DOA mobos u read about here...

also I just tried a full reset of BIOS here, and in the memory section everyting is auto, except that 2T is set.
So I guess that 2T should be used then, in the definition of stock speed.

btw: I tried the newest version of Prime95 with blend setting last night, 12 hours no errors.
240x10 166/200 divider (200mhz on ram) with 2-2-2-5-1T on my week 37 winchester 3500+

[Hammertail]

Prime95 v23.5 runs fine on all my pc's listed below. Prime95 v23.8 runs fine on pc #1 & 3, but errors (memory errors) out on pc #2 after a couple of hours. I think it's a bug in Prime95 v23.8 since the older version runs fine on all my pc's. My suggestion is to try Prime95 v23.5 if you have problems with v23.8. You can download v23.5 from here: ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v235.exe

PC #1
Antec SLK3700-BQE Case (120mm Fan in front and rear).
ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FM) 460Watt (Dual Fan) Power Supply (+12v = 33Amps)
ASUS A8V Deluxe Motherboard (bios v1008)
AMD Athlon64 3500+ (Winchester)
EVGA 6800GT (66.93 Drivers)
1Gb of Crucial PC3200 DDR RAM (2x512Mb) Running in Dual Channel Mode
Two 74Gb Western Digital Raptors
SoundBlaster Audigy ZS
NEC 3500A DVD+/-R
TEAC 1.44Mb FDD
Dell UltraSharp 2001fp
Windows XP Pro with SP2

PC #2
Antec Performance II SX630II Case (80mm Fan in front and rear).
ENERMAX EG465P-VE(FM) 460Watt (Dual Fan) Power Supply (+12v = 33Amps)
ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe Motherboard (bios v1018)
Intel 3.2C (Hyperthreading Enabled)
Zalman CNPS7000A-Cu Pure Copper CPU Cooler
ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128Mb (Catalyst v4.8 Drivers)
1Gb of Crucial PC3200 DDR RAM (2x512Mb) Running in Dual Channel Mode
One 120Gb Seagate HDD (model ST3120026A)
NEC 2500A DVD+/-R
TEAC 1.44Mb FDD
Viewsonic E95 Monitor
Windows XP Pro with SP2

PC #3
Antec Performance II SX630II Case (80mm Fan in front and rear).
Antec SL-350S 350W SmartPower (Single fan) Power Supply
ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe Motherboard (bios v1012)
AMD 2800+ AthlonXP (Barton)
1Gb of Crucial PC2700 DDR RAM (2x512Mb) Running in Dual Channel Mode
ATI Radeon 9500 Pro 128Mb Video Card (Catalyst v4.8 Drivers)
One 120Gb Western Digital HDD (model ST3120026A)
Pioneer DVR-A04 DVD-R
TEAC 1.44Mb FDD
Viewsonic E95 Monitor
Windows XP Pro with SP2

[halcyon]

Hammertail,

if your #2 system does NOT fail every single time in exact same spot, then it's more than likely NOT a prime95 bug.

For how long and how many runs have you tried each versions?

Do remember that failures, when due to hardware problems, can be sporadic: sometimes test runs are ok for 8 hours and then fail on two consecutive runs of 30 minutes, then work for 4 hours, etc.

[n0w4i4]

My System doesn't fail prime at stock and oc.
0441RPMW 3500+ with A-Data 1024MB ! (OC Speed: 2.75GHz 1.52V)
Ram wont go over 230 FSB 1:1 Dualchannel 1T. => Prime and SuperPI fails instantly.
Mainboard is an AV8 rev 1.1 Bios 1.7

I think Prime is working correctly and is still a must have prog. to test stability. For 3D i recommend 3dmark 2001.

From my point of view, the AMD 64 Memory controller is the problem. It seems that there are some chips around that do not work correctly even at stock speeds. For all of you that have problems at stock speeds: Lower Vcore, Vdimm and underclock to 1.8GHZ and test again. If you come to a point where prime is stable, go up with your settings again.

[p0k]

Let me just be ignorant. Let me just blame everything on Prime95!!!

My Winchester 3500+ week 37 failed Prime95 v238 at stock speed.
Went out and bought 3200+ week 43 from a local store. Failed at stock speed.

Memory which I use 2x 512MB OCZ 3200 Platinum Rev2. Tried with 3 different settings 2-2-2-5@1T, 2-2-2-5@2T and 2-2-2-10@1T. Memory has been tested hours with Memtest no trouble. I know the memory is good.

Motherboard MSI Neo2 Platinum BIOS 1.41.
CPU and Memory volt set to default (at startup)
OCZ PS 520W.

What other things that I can try before I become 100% ignorant and blame on Prime95??

Thanks!

[lsevald]

Let me just be ignorant. Let me just blame everything on Prime95!!!

My Winchester 3500+ week 37 failed Prime95 v238 at stock speed.
Went out and bought 3200+ week 43 from a local store. Failed at stock speed.

Memory which I use 2x 512MB OCZ 3200 Platinum Rev2. Tried with 3 different settings 2-2-2-5@1T, 2-2-2-5@2T and 2-2-2-10@1T. Memory has been tested hours with Memtest no trouble. I know the memory is good.

Motherboard MSI Neo2 Platinum BIOS 1.41.
CPU and Memory volt set to default (at startup)
OCZ PS 520W.

What other things that I can try before I become 100% ignorant and blame on Prime95??

Thanks!

Enable hidden BIOS options (shift+F2, then alt+F3), and set Drive Strength=Weak (in the Core Cell section). This helps with my OCZ EB modules. Good luck

[p0k]

Enable hidden BIOS options (shift+F2, then alt+F3), and set Drive Strength=Weak (in the Core Cell section). This helps with my OCZ EB modules. Good luck

Thanks for the suggestion. But it did not help. Prime95 v235 and v238 failed at 1 minute mark. @stock speed with Winchester 3500+ week 37 and 3200+ week 43. Memory timing 2-2-2-5@2T.

[lsevald]

Thanks for the suggestion. But it did not help. Prime95 v235 and v238 failed at 1 minute mark. @stock speed with Winchester 3500+ week 37 and 3200+ week 43. Memory timing 2-2-2-5@2T.

I would try a bit more relaxed RAM timings (2-3-3-7) and slightly higher Vddr (2.75V) before trying 2T

OCZ specifies 2.75V for that RAM, if I found the correct page that is:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/product...platinum_rev_2

[MUCHO]

I have no way to measure temps accurately. The motherboard shows an idle temp of 25C so I know its way off. However I am running at stock Vcore with an Thermalright XP120 so I don't believe temps to be the challenge.

I haven't put the multimeter to the board but I have a Fortron FSP530 that was rock solid in my AXP system.

The memory is Patriot XLB series TCCD chips that are memtest stable at 2.5 3 3 8 timings and it locks up at memory speeds as low as 230.

The system in question is a Gigabyte ultra 939 with a 3000+ winchester week 39.

It will lock up in Prime95 only. [EDIT] More than Prime is failing. Gonna try to get a different CPU I guess

I'm thinking - memory controller sucks?

[v142]

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0k
Let me just be ignorant. Let me just blame everything on Prime95!!!

My Winchester 3500+ week 37 failed Prime95 v238 at stock speed.
Went out and bought 3200+ week 43 from a local store. Failed at stock speed.

the chances that u got 2 defect CPUs are rather slim.
have u checked under ur northbridge too see if there is enuf goop?
have u tried different bioses?

there does seems too be a thing in common on most of the reports with failing prime at stock, most pll with trouble seems to have this setup:
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinium
2x 512MB OCZ 3200 Platinum Rev2
OCZ Powersteam 520W

[kryptobs2000]

do winchesters have problems with memtest too?

[IvanAndreevich]

kryptobs2000
No. I get the impression you never really read this thread carefully.

[kryptobs2000]

Oh, no I thought someone said they ran memtest and it failed and they were asking if it was because of the memory controller. I can't find it now, I thought it was p0k's post, but I think he just never mentioned it and Ijust misread memtest or something. Sorry made myself look kinda stupid there please overlook that

[n0w4i4]

It sounds stupid but lower the Vdimm: Set your RAM to 3-4-4-8 2T 200Mhz and to 2.6Vdimm. Give it a try, I am sure with this settings your system will pass Prime without a glitch.

My system doesnt run stable if i put more than 2.65Vdimm on it. !?

[kryptobs2000]

Thats probably because your ram dosn't like voltage, although 2.65 isn't much at all. And it still dosn't fix the problem.

[n0w4i4]

My Ram likes voltage, but not in my A64 sys.

When i put my A-DATAs in my NF7S it runs stable with 2.9 V but not my ABIT AV8.

[Crunchy]

n0w4i4: Well bugger me! I just tried that and it completed 32M SuperPI! That's the first time this rig has ever passed it, I've tried slack timings but not low mem volts . I'll try stock timings of 2-2-2-5 1T but at 2.6Vdimm and see if it still passes, see my sig for my RAM etc.

[Crunchy]

Bleh, 2-2-2-5 1T fails straight away. Gonna go back to the slack timings and see if it's Prime95 stable. Defo a bad chip, waiting for my 3500 Newcastle as I'm not risking getting another bad one.

[n0w4i4]

@Crunchy

You have tested with 3-4-4-8 and which Vdimm ? 2.6 or what ?

[Crunchy]

I tried 3-4-4-8 2T at 2.6Vdimm and it passed SuperPI 32M, 2-2-2-5 1T at 2.6Vdimm however does not pass .

I tried slack timings before but at 2.7Vdimm and they failed SuperPI 32M every time.

[n0w4i4]

You see, thats a really strange thing with Vdimm and prime. I am just wondering how this is possible ?

[IvanAndreevich]

n0w4i4
What kind of test fails with high VDIMM for ya? Large FFTs?