My T.E.C. plan - 437W pelti on a P4 650 and maybe a tec on the x850 pe?

[Piper]

Now guys, correct me if I am wrong, cause I can't afford to be wrong.

But I don't want to confuse the rated capability of the TEC with the rated output of the PSU, the Meanwell SE-600-24 which I am talking about is rated at 24V and 25A = max output of 600W.

So the TEC is able to take Vmax: 26.7volt - Imax: 32.8amp = 875.67, but you are only going to get part of what the PSU's max 600W is is able to actually supply. But worst case is 600W of juice right ?

So 600W is about 88% of the max the TEC needs at 100%. So, you will get something like 88% of the max heat output from the TEC + whatever the CPU put's out, say 100W to keep the math simple.

So how much heat in watts is this TEC going to put out at 600W of power input ?

According to Eweast's posts on TECs, the total heat burden is the rated power of the TEC (if it's fully powered) + the heat output of the CPU.

So, let's say 88% of 437W + 100W = 484.56W or just a little under the 500W that I was told by the Wintsch Lab's Tech.

Again, if I am missing something please let me know and show me where I have it wrong cause I can't afford any mistakes.

Thanx


EDIT: Oh, FreeCableGuy, thanx very much for your advice, but I am not doing this as a choice of cooling system. I am on the Staff at Pimprig.com and I have to do a product review on the Arctic Web, and Wintsch Labs is sending me the WB/TEC and the Meanwell 600W.

What I have to do is make sure I build the rest of the cooling system in such a way that their product get's a fair opportunity to show what it can and can't do. I owe this to everyone who is thinking of buying it, as well as to the company supplying it.

In fact, this isn't even going into an actual case, I have constructed a test bench for mounting all the gear and the minimum computer products required in order to boot and run benches.

So my happiness isn't even a factor, this is work, and fun. But I am telling you, this sucker scares me just a bit. I am excited about playing with it too

[Butcher_]

Now guys, correct me if I am wrong, cause I can't afford to be wrong.

But I don't want to confuse the rated capability of the TEC with the rated output of the PSU, the Meanwell SE-600-24 which I am talking about is rated at 24V and 25A = max output of 600W.

So the TEC is able to take Vmax: 26.7volt - Imax: 32.8amp = 875.67, but you are only going to get part of what the PSU's max 600W is is able to actually supply. But worst case is 600W of juice right ?

No, wrong.
Worst case you set your PSU on fire. Actual scenario is likely to be you trip the overload protection on the PSU.

About ratings:
The load (in this case TEC) ratings are the maximum amount of current it will draw from a supply. At the rated voltage it's current draw will generally be at or close to this value.
The PSU rating is the maximum amount of power it can (safely) supply.

Supply MUST exceed demand.
If you hook a TEC that draws 30A to a supply that can supply 50A you will have 30A flowing.
If you hook a TEC which draws 30A at 24V to a supply that can only supply 10A you will still have 30A flowing and will either nuke the supply or trip overcurrent.

Actual current flow is a factor of the load, not the supply. You should always choose a supply that at least meets the current specification of the load, exceeding it by around 20% is a safer choice.

[wittekakker]

Oké, didn't read every single post here.
But what I would recommend:
take 2 220W tec's for cpu and GPU, or maybe 2*175W for cpu.
400W is just to huge, maybe use it only @ 1/2 of Vmax.

Radiator: I would take a car's engine radiator. They are huge. Then take 2 or 3 120mm fan's. This will do the job.

[Piper]

So Butcher, are you saying that if Wintsch Labs sends me the Arctic Web with the 437W TEC and a Meanwell SE-600-24 PSU that the PSU they are sending is insufficient for the task and I will be risking my equipment ?

Each of these retailers show this PSU as capable of powering the 437W TEC from Wintsch Labs. But, I would also think that they both rely on the product manufacturer, Wintsch Labs, for the recommended power solution.

SideWinder Computers

FrozenCPU

I think I need to have a better discussion with Wintsch Labs. It wouldn't be the first time that a couple of guys thought they had a nitch market for a product, and got into something a little more technical then they had expected. It's entirely possible that they are great at machining and the water block end, and a little short on the electronics experience that the TEC requires.

BTW, I would imagine that two of these Meanwell SCN-600-12 PSUs would be pretty damn good ?

[Butcher_]

Yes that is what I'm saying.
Checking the specs of that TEC shows that it requires 25.1-32.8A (depending on load) at TH=50C.
The SE-600-24 has a maximum output of 25A continuous. Given you're unlikely to be using it unladen, this supply is inadequate for the TEC. Assuming you draw 30A from it, the PSU will be at 120% rated current, that's very likely to just blow the overcurrent more or less immediately.

Yes, two SCN-600-12s would work, though 50A output is somewhat overkill. I would aim to spec around 750-800W worth of PSU to power that TEC.

[Piper]

Butcher, thanx for sticking with me on this.

Now I have a real descision. I am not supplying the TEC or the PSU, someone else is and it's their gear. If it blows up, I may loose equipment, but probably not as long as I am attentive. Most likely, if things go bad, I just have a slight more/less interesting product review, and a future second shot.

Of course, if it survives initial powerup, and the TEC heats up, this will reduce the demand for amperage right ? Won't the draw of current be reduced as the TEC heats up and minimize the risk some ?

I know this also ereduces cooling effectiveness.

[Butcher_]

Rereading the specs it turns out the 25.1-32.8A number is for 26.7V. Adjusting for 24V gives 22.6-29.5A.
There is a TH=300K (27C) number for 24.9V which still indicates up to 30A though. Comparing with the TH=50C number (above) shows that the current draw changes by less than 1A as you heat up the TEC, so you should still spec at least 30A. It will really depend on how cool you can keep the hot side and how much load you put on it.

[Piper]

OK, I must appologize for highjacking this topic but I have gone this far so I'll try and get my business finished here fast.

Last word from the retailer is that they are sending a pair of Meanwell S-320-12 PSUs for me and not the single Meanwell SC-600-24. Now I just have to make sure I know how to wire them up properly. I'll save that for later if the documentation doesn't cover it clearly.

Thanx Butcher.

[Butcher_]

Hmm, the S-320-12 isn't designed for parallel operation, and it's only rated at 25A - my work, may not.

[gkiing]

forget the tec, wafter the cost of the power bill after a couple of months you'll regret it. Get a liquid chiller or direct die, their far more efficient and the cost would be comparable to this.

[Piper]

Gkiing, who is it your talking too ?

Besides, this is the TEC Cooling Forum. Why in the heel are you trying to tell guys not to cool with TECs when they already want too ?

Sorta like running around the subway station telling people to take a cab ain't it ?

[gkiing]

Gkiing, who is it your talking too ?

Besides, this is the TEC Cooling Forum. Why in the heel are you trying to tell guys not to cool with TECs when they already want too ?

Sorta like running around the subway station telling people to take a cab ain't it ?

That would be the case if the subway went at a walking pace and cost 30$ per trip

[Piper]

Gkiing, I am one of the staff guys at Pimprig.com. Now over there, I handle a lot of the water cooling business for the site. And although I rarely reccommend water cooling to anyone, if a member want's to watercool, then it's my job to help them do it right.

I would hope that that's the approach here at Xtremesytems. It's certainly the impression I get from Butcher and others who have been very helpfull.

Of course this little thing between us might be unneccessary as I asked you who you were talking to, (meaning me or the original poster ?). That way I would know who you were addressing.

I have no choice in whether or not to TEC cool, (well very little at least).

I have a review to write up on this TEC based cooling system and that's my job for the site. So if you're talking to me, save your breath, it's immaterial. But your point might be perfectly valid for the original poster.

I need help on TEC cooling, I came here for that help cause I respect your crew

[Rippthrough]

I think, with a TEC like that, anyone who bought one would definately do it justice by making sure it had plenty of radiating area attached. 1 or 2 pumps is a matter for debate though.

[gkiing]

Hey, I understand. If you want to TEC you're gona tec. Personally I prefer regular watercooling or phase change. But hey, TEC's are an adventure. My only advice is that you vent the radiator outside, it will get HOT.

[Piper]

Thanx GKiing, actually it all goes onto a test bench I have built from that white Polyurathane (I think), chopping block stuff they sell at Wallmart for $10.00 a sheet, about 20" X 15". This stuff has been really nice to work on, solid, water proof, resillient, easy to cut or drill, holds screws and bolts well.

[Butcher_]

Yeah, personally, though I've dabbled in TECs, I'd never use them for a proper system, they just suck too much juice. :p
If others want to though better they get good advice then go off and set their comp on fire or such.

[gkiing]

what I meant is that whatever room you're in will get really hot from the heat rejected by the radiator.. I used a 226W tec last june and my room temp went from 20c to 35 in like a half hour, those things put out some serious heat.

[wittekakker]

Indeed. I tested a 220W TEC last week one a frozen waterblock. In 5 seconds all ice was gone

[Rippthrough]

It's gonna feel like you left a storage radiator on