Cooler modded with peltier

[elmysterio]

Hi, I want to do an air cooler on the Peltier element, the problem is they do not know where to stop. Currently we have a ninja 2 modded with Peltier but I want something better. With cooler temperatures that are up to 35-37 `C on an e6850 at 4000mhz in full load. Solutions should be: True, Noctua, Ninja rev A, Prolimatech Megahalems. Which of these would be best for it?

[Josifek]

The best performance cooler is Thermalright IFX-14 but you need two fans or one with high RPM, then it can beat true by 5 degrees...

[Ultrasonic2]

Hi, I want to do an air cooler on the Peltier element, the problem is they do not know where to stop. Currently we have a ninja 2 modded with Peltier but I want something better. With cooler temperatures that are up to 35-37 `C on an e6850 at 4000mhz in full load. Solutions should be: True, Noctua, Ninja rev A, Prolimatech Megahalems. Which of these would be best for it?

Prolimatech Megahalems with out a doubt ..you'll need 2 38mm fans too .. the True isn't that good cos the base isn't flat

I presume you've got a 62mm TEC ?

can we have a pic of your current setup...

[elmysterio]

Prolimatech Megahalems with out a doubt ..you'll need 2 38mm fans too .. the True isn't that good cos the base isn't flat

I presume you've got a 62mm TEC ?

can we have a pic of your current setup...

Yes I have the 62mm Peltier exactly the 122w. Tests are 2 different systems but the cpu power and the Peltier 12v. I have picture with 4000mhz but over 200KB and I can count.

[Ultrasonic2]

Yes I have the 62mm Peltier exactly the 122w. Tests are 2 different systems but the cpu power and the Peltier 12v. I have picture with 4000mhz but over 200KB and I can count.

i was actually meaning a pic of your heat sink, TEC and cold plate

do you have a link to the TEC you bought .. cos if it's really 122w then replacing it with a bigger one is a sure bet to better temps

[elmysterio]

http://www.activecool.com/products/ac4g001.html

I want to change the radiator not Peltier may have lower temperatures. The fan that cools is schyte with 130cfm at 3000rpm. From there we took Peltier and it looks now

[Ultrasonic2]

I want to change the radiator not Peltier may have lower temperatures. The fan that cools is schyte with 130cfm at 3000rpm. From there we took Peltier and it looks now

Yes but changing the TEC is by far the easiest way to increase cooling performance if it's really a 122watt TEC.. it'll make more difference than changing the heat sink ..though you should do that too

[elmysterio]

I want to change the radiator to heat dissipated better, be better than Ninja 2.

[Ultrasonic2]

Yes i know that .... BUT WHAT you want is lower temps right ????

SOOO change the TEC to a more powerful one if possible AND the radiator

[demonkevy666]

why not try a mugen 2 and a 225 watt tec (40mm) ?

also have tried three push and one pull fan ?

[elmysterio]

why not try a mugen 2 and a 225 watt tec (40mm) ?

also have tried three push and one pull fan ?

One pull fan. I thought i put the 140w Peltier and I was thinking that one of these would be good Coolers.

[Reefa_Madness]

The TRUE was used here, but in a "dually" (two TRUE heatsinks). It was very nicely done, too.

If you haven't read thru this thread, it may be of some value to you.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...True+heatsinks

[demonkevy666]

The TRUE was used here, but in a "dually" (two TRUE heatsinks). It was very nicely done, too.

If you haven't read thru this thread, it may be of some value to you.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...True+heatsinks

he using 2 360 watt tecs at 77% and the cpu is 150 watts overclocked.

so he's air cooling about 700 watts >_> why dose that sound not believable....?

maybe we're underrating air coolers lol
I just did a down core (1core in use at 3.0ghz) on my phenom and test with my 225 at half voltage amd heat pipe cooler the cooler only got 40-44C. that was about 160 watts of heat.

[elmysterio]

What I recommended TEC Cooler: Cooler master V10 or Ultra ChillTec Black CPU Cooler? I want to change Peltier with a more powerful 138w

[zipdogso]

he using 2 360 watt tecs at 77% and the cpu is 150 watts overclocked.

so he's air cooling about 700 watts >_> why dose that sound not believable....?

maybe we're underrating air coolers lol
I just did a down core (1core in use at 3.0ghz) on my phenom and test with my 225 at half voltage amd heat pipe cooler the cooler only got 40-44C. that was about 160 watts of heat.

No his potential heat coming off the hotside is 1.5Kw but that's only if he really cools 700w. Of course he is not he is only cooling 150w so he has got 300w coming off the hotside - easily within the range of decent aftermarket HSF.
Since he was powering the TECs 77% he gave himself a bit more Dt ( and hence lower coldside temps.) due to his overhead i.e. he had....I don't without looking it up...say 600w cooling on a 150w heat source. N.B. He might of had 600w potential cooling but his actual cooling is only 150w so that is all the heat it can pass so his hotside is 150w x2 = 300w.

You on the other hand had no overhead using a 225w at 50% power on a 160w heat source. So by powering 50% you hurt your Dt and as i said you had no overhead either so you didnt get good temps. Extreme undervolting only really works for multiple TECs.

[hadyn5]

he using 2 360 watt tecs at 77% and the cpu is 150 watts overclocked.

so he's air cooling about 700 watts >_> why dose that sound not believable....?

maybe we're underrating air coolers lol
I just did a down core (1core in use at 3.0ghz) on my phenom and test with my 225 at half voltage amd heat pipe cooler the cooler only got 40-44C. that was about 160 watts of heat.

700 watts far far exceed the capacity of all commercially available heatsinks, even the top ones.

Take Venomous X as a representative of modern top end air coolers. It has six 6mm heatpipes. Each heatpipe can transfer 40 watts, more or less at its capacity. So, Venomous X can take 6 x 40 = 240 watts maximum theoretically with the heatpipes. (<700 watts)

P.S. However, most, if not all, modern top end aftermarket heatsinks are limited not by the heatpipes but by the heat dissipation upstairs (ie fan(s) blowing air through the fins). One will probably need some monster Deltas to blow high CFMs of air through in order to approach this figure. The down side is , of course, loud noise. Manufacturers know it and so they usually bundle fan(s) that most certainly compromise heat dissipation for the sake of quietness.

[zipdogso]

700 watts far far exceed the capacity of all commercially available heatsinks, even the top ones.

Take Venomous X as a representative of modern top end air coolers. It has six 6mm heatpipes. Each heatpipe can transfer 40 watts, more or less at its capacity. So, Venomous X can take 6 x 40 = 240 watts maximum theoretically with the heatpipes. (<700 watts)

P.S. However, most, if not all, modern top end aftermarket heatsinks are limited not by the heatpipes but by the heat dissipation upstairs (ie fan(s) blowing air through the fins). One will probably need some monster Deltas to blow high CFMs of air through in order to approach this figure. The down side is , of course, loud noise. Manufacturers know it and so they usually bundle fan(s) that most certainly compromise heat dissipation for the sake of quietness.

You obviously didn't read my post....we aren't talking about having 700w coming off the hotside.

[hadyn5]

You obviously didn't read my post....we aren't talking about having 700w coming off the hotside.

I read your post. You said 300w.
Now, you obviously do not get the main point of my post. I say, top end coolers like Venomous X can only handle maximum 240w. Your 300w still far exceeds this limit.
Or, could you suggest ''a decent aftermarket HSF'' that can handle this 300w easily?

[zipdogso]

I read your post. You said 300w.
Now, you obviously do not get the main point of my post. I say, top end coolers like Venomous X can only handle maximum 240w. Your 300w still far exceeds this limit.
Or, could you suggest ''a decent aftermarket HSF'' that can handle this 300w easily?

From my experience with heatpipes I think you are going a bit on the low side.

Now i am sticking my neck out here because I havent researched recently and nor do I intend too so I talking from my not so good, analgesically overloaded memory. (I am on bucket loads of painkillers which tend to "fog" one's thoughts and memory.)

There are a number of "fills" of heatpipes the cheapest use just pressurized water, then there is those with channels molded in the internal surfaces, then there are those which are wire filled and finally those with "sintering".
And that is pretty much the order of effectiveness.

The very cheapest 6mm Heatpipes actually only have a rating of around 20-25w, this goes up to average "sintered" 6mm having a rating averaging around 60w. The problem here is that the data I used was based on the heatpipes being in the horizontal position with no gravitational effect so basically used in the vertical position the potential rating is a tad higher.

Frosty tech had a little spat of chopping up heatsinks and found the majority not all were wire mesh. However it is known that some of the more expensive 'sinks use "sintered" heatpipes. They are expensive because they have to be manufactured to shape and size and flexing by more than a few degrees can cause the sintering to breakdown.

Sorry I can't remember the brand of heatsink but some poor fellow knocked his system containing one of the larger and more expensive 'sinks of the table and as it was installed on a vertical board it became badly skewed on enquiring to the manu' he found it was beyond help because they were sintered pipes.

The point of all this is you should not tar all heatsinks with the same brush thay are NOT necessarily the same but unfortunately you wont know till you break them open.

A 6 x 6mm pipe HSF with "sintered" pipes may well have a rating of 360w but quite possibly less it depends on the manufacturer and thickness of sintering. Indeed with a fan on it I would EXPECT this to be higher.

One further point is that to save on manufacturing and installation costs heatpipes are often produced in what effectively is "pairs" so a six pipe HSF, like the Venomous X, actually has 12 pipes - there are 12 hot ends dissipating heat you would have to take this into consideration as well. Assuming wire mesh internals 12 x 40w is 480w...potentially anyway depends how it is made/pressured. with everyone carping on about i7's getting really hot (though I actually doubt it.) The venomous X would have to have a rating something like this to be considered worthwhile.

So you say heatpipe HSF's 240w at best...I don't agree....

I know it is not quite the same thing but I have some "sintered" 12mm heatpipes which used horizontally have a rating of 150w....wow, what a heatsink one could get then.....

[demonkevy666]

O_O 480 watts

[hadyn5]

From my experience with heatpipes I think you are going a bit on the low side.

Now i am sticking my neck out here because I havent researched recently and nor do I intend too so I talking from my not so good, analgesically overloaded memory. (I am on bucket loads of painkillers which tend to "fog" one's thoughts and memory.)

There are a number of "fills" of heatpipes the cheapest use just pressurized water, then there is those with channels molded in the internal surfaces, then there are those which are wire filled and finally those with "sintering".
And that is pretty much the order of effectiveness.

The very cheapest 6mm Heatpipes actually only have a rating of around 20-25w, this goes up to average "sintered" 6mm having a rating averaging around 60w. The problem here is that the data I used was based on the heatpipes being in the horizontal position with no gravitational effect so basically used in the vertical position the potential rating is a tad higher.

Frosty tech had a little spat of chopping up heatsinks and found the majority not all were wire mesh. However it is known that some of the more expensive 'sinks use "sintered" heatpipes. They are expensive because they have to be manufactured to shape and size and flexing by more than a few degrees can cause the sintering to breakdown.

Sorry I can't remember the brand of heatsink but some poor fellow knocked his system containing one of the larger and more expensive 'sinks of the table and as it was installed on a vertical board it became badly skewed on enquiring to the manu' he found it was beyond help because they were sintered pipes.

The point of all this is you should not tar all heatsinks with the same brush thay are NOT necessarily the same but unfortunately you wont know till you break them open.

A 6 x 6mm pipe HSF with "sintered" pipes may well have a rating of 360w. Indeed with a fan on it I would EXPECT this to be higher.

One further point is that to save on manufacturing and installation costs heatpipes are often produced in what effectively is "pairs" so a six pipe HSF, like the Venomous X, actually has 12 pipes - there are 12 hot ends dissipating heat you would have to take this into consideration as well. Assuming wire mesh internals 12 x 40w is 480w. with everyone carping on about i7's getting really hot (though I actually doubt it.) The venomous X would have to have a rating something like this to be considered worthwhile.

So you say heatpipe HSF's 240w at best...I don't agree....

I know it is not quite the same thing but I have some "sintered" 12mm heatpipes which used horizontally have a rating of 150w....wow, what a heatsink one could get then.....

Let us not talk about heatpipes of all kinds as this is not applicable. We must restrict to heatpipes used by commercially available HSFs like Thermalright's Venomous X, CoolerMaster's V8, Noctua's NH-D14...etc.

First of all, Venomous X has *six* heatpipes, each is a U-shaped heatpipe. It is certainly not twelve independent heatpipes. Thermalright says so. In fact, this is the industry practice. If twelve heatpipes are used, the price of the Venomous X would have skyrocketed to at least $150.

Now, each of the six heatpipes is rated at 30 watts max when it is bent into an L. When it is bent into an U, the transfer capacity does not get doubled but it will be around 40 watts.

When six of these are lined up, the maximum is 240 watts. However, as the surface area of the CPU is limited, these six heatpipes will not have the same amount of contact area and so it will take about, say, 10-15 watts away. The two outter ones will not transfer as much as the inner ones.

When fins are connected, depending on which method of connection is used (usually a cost consideration from the manufactuer's point of view), this takes about, say, 5-10 watts away.

In the practical end, those six heatpipes of Venomous X can transfer about 215-225 watts. This is only possible when you blow them with a pair of high rpm (>3000rpm) fans (probablay giving noise >50dbA).

No heatsink fan combo can ever do 300 watts heat dissipation. Take CoolerMaster V8 as another example, it is rated and advertised as an 180 watts cooler. If you apply a 300 watts to it, I guarantee those six heatpipes will explode. Actually they will 'pop' as the walls of the heatpipes will burst opened. I have seen this before.

It all boils down to: can you name one HSF from a reputable manufactuer (eg Thermalright, Coolermaster...etc) that (you think) can handle 300 watts? Maybe we can go over to the air cooling forum and continue this discussion?

[zipdogso]

Let us not talk about heatpipes of all kinds as this is not applicable. We must restrict to heatpipes used by commercially available HSFs like Thermalright's Venomous X, CoolerMaster's V8, Noctua's NH-D14...etc.

First of all, Venomous X has *six* heatpipes, each is a U-shaped heatpipe. It is certainly not twelve independent heatpipes. Thermalright says so. In fact, this is the industry practice. If twelve heatpipes are used, the price of the Venomous X would have skyrocketed to at least $150.

Now, each of the six heatpipes is rated at 30 watts max when it is bent into an L. When it is bent into an U, the transfer capacity does not get doubled but it will be around 40 watts.
Maybe we can go over to the air cooling forum and continue this discussion?

I know Thermalright call it six heatpipes but in a manner of working there are 12 heat dissipation points coming off 6 "cold" I know they don't work as 12 individual heatpipes. I know it's practice I said so myself it is from both manufacturing and construction costs they do this, they are essentially a pair of heatpipes sharing a cold end. i have looked at the venomous X page and I see they are "sintered" and I can pretty much guarantee they have a rating higher than 40w (per "U") especially vertically and fan assisted which is the point I was trying to make before I went off the deep end. - my information comes from several sources including Heatpipe manufacturers who I buy heatpipes from. Sure it is not doubled for a "U" as I mentioned it is 12 hot ends and only 6 cold ends is not as efficient as 12 individual heatpipes.
There are a large number OF thermal adjustments to take into account on HSF'S and just because your heatpipes shift 360w the HSF as a whole wont reach this But I still say your aiming very low assuming all heatpipe HSF can only do 240w.
Incidently the contact area doesn't have as much as you think to do with it as only the only 2-3 cm at each end (or in the middle as the case maybe.) however long the pipe, are the optimum points of heat contraction/dispersal.

And that's the end of my discussion..... All and sundry can get what they like from this...life's too short....and I have no interest in HSF's.

[elmysterio]

My old Peltier cooler with me broke and I want to replace.

[elmysterio]

Who helps me with some copper or aluminum plates to process them by size to change my Peltier?