New DDC top from Italy

[ramenchef]

Yes, and I'm using his numbers from loop 1 as I calculated it to be 1.9 gpm on a stock DDC which is roughly equivalent to Petra's 1.85 gpm or whatever on his max flow test, which would make Loop 1 have very little restriction or a similar set up as Petra's max flow rate test.

[ramenchef]

And again. DOH!

[ramenchef]

Deletes

[ramenchef]

Holy ****, the forums went nuts on me. Sorry.

[Pete]

Yeah it's been getting worse last few days

[Nikos]

Here is all the pics ( http://www.oclabs.com/pfocus.php?docid=1314 ), i've post here the following two:





About the FourDoors's test: he's made in on a DDC Basic with black impeller with the original TOP (DDC 1T on the Graphs) and OCLabs PlexyTop (DDC 1T Top on the Graphs). The results of 5 loops are the following [A-> only 12mm tube, B-> with B3 PlexyBlock, C-> with B3 PlexyBlock and 6mm tubes radiator: http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7708/highcm0.jpg ]

A-> OCLabs TOP makes 720 litres/hour (190.20 GPH - 3.17 GPM) VS Original TOP makes 439.02 litres/hour (115.98 GPH - 1.93 GPM)
B-> OCLabs TOP makes 620.69 litres/hour (163.97 GPH - 2.73 GPM) VS Original TOP makes 391.30 litres/hour (103.37 GPH - 1.73 GPM)
C-> OCLabs TOP makes 375 litres/hour (99.06 GPH - 1.65 GPM) VS Original TOP makes 295.08 litres/hour (77.95 GPH - 1.3 GPM)

Now I need some time to make the tests and I'll post all the possible results ASAP...

Kind regards, Nikos

EDIT: For 5 LOOPS I intend 5 PASS Tests (sorry my english )

[SiGfever]

I have had consider your request in the R & D phase and I have discovered that this choice would create some problem like more vibrations and noises when the air will traps to the secondary inlet channel, so I decide to not make a second inlet channel until I’ll be not able to solve this problem.




Is this one the pic you may want to see ? The Blue has 8.00mm (0.315inch) and the Black has 12.00mm (0.472inch) hole.



Is this one the pic you may want to see ? The PlexyTop inlet is also 8.00mm as the Blue impeller diameter and the other dimension are 40.00mm (1.575inch) diameter that’s exactly the same as the original DDC Tops. I also made a couple of experiments with 38.00mm diameter and I see that there is a performance lost from 5 to 7% in the flow rate. As finally thing, I would like to underline that it’s impossible to go over 40.00mm because there are mechanical problems and limits.






If the orange impeller has the same dimensions of the black one, then the orange impeller will be perform 5-7% better on the same DDC basic pump.

Kind regards, Nikos

Thanks for the pictures. I was interested in the volute size and your pictures tell the tale. Thanks again.

[Jochenp]

mmm, looks like you can mod the new blue impeller to match the diameter of the old black one

[FourDoors]

mmm, looks like you can mod the new blue impeller to match the diameter of the old black one

yes, you can, but we auìre not sure about the results.
About my test, if you need some explanation, please ask me.
In the table, you can se 5 different misurement, I used a 5 liter bucket to fill and 3 different loop, as said by Nikos (the tubes was 10mm inside diameter).
In the "media" row you can se the average time of the 5 isurement.
In the "portata litri/ora" you can se the calculed flow rate of the pump.
I'm sure that you can understand in a better way looking at the graph.
This was non a professional test rig, but I don't have the right instruments to do a more accurate test.
I hope than Nikos will do it better

Regards, FourDoor

[Nikos]

mmm, looks like you can mod the new blue impeller to match the diameter of the old black one

Yes, of course Our last tests, has confirmed that the performances of the Black Impeller (hole opening 12mm) is equal to the Blue Modded Impeller (hole opening from 8 to 12mm).

The real difference between Black and Blue Unmodded was about 50 (13.2GPH) to 65 liters/hour (17.17GPH) and depends from the PSU unit (real +12v), we've used only the DDC basic pump on a 300W and on a 420W PSU. Today we'll make some other tests on a DDC PLUS pump and we'll try also the OCZ 520W before posting final results.

Kind regards, Nikos

[lilneel12]

that looks nice

[Aerou]

Yes, of course Our last tests, has confirmed that the performances of the Black Impeller (hole opening 12mm) is equal to the Blue Modded Impeller (hole opening from 8 to 12mm).

The real difference between Black and Blue Unmodded was about 50 (13.2GPH) to 65 liters/hour (17.17GPH) and depends from the PSU unit (real +12v), we've used only the DDC basic pump on a 300W and on a 420W PSU. Today we'll make some other tests on a DDC PLUS pump and we'll try also the OCZ 520W before posting final results.

Kind regards, Nikos

but the black impeller has greater performance than a unmodded blue one, right?

[Pete]

My blue one which is on the rev2 (latest DDC out) DDC10w with the pcb 3.3 has a 12mm inlet....

[Nikos]

Hello, today we've finished the official series of tests and the results had really surprised us. We've try three different PSU unit (300, 420, OCZ 520) and the results was amazing different.

The 300watt common PSU have had only 11.50volt and when we start the DDC BASIC pump the voltage decreases to 10.95v. The same thing for the 420watt PSU that have had only 11.90volt and when we start the DDC BASIC pump the voltage decreases to 11.01v. The OCZ 520, as you already know has the trimers for the voltage, and at stock triming have had exactly 12.25volt and 12.23volt when starting the DDC BASIC pump. We’ve decrease the trimming at 12.03volts (no pump) and the tester shows 12.00-12.01volts with DDC BASIC pump working during the test sessions.

Here are some “on-the-fly” results and conclusions:

DDC BASIC 10Watt, OCLabs stock PlexyTop with 9.0ID/13.0OD mm barbs and 100cm 12ID/16OD mm tube and 25 to 30cm level difference from upper curve of the tube and the level of the pump. All the tests was made at least three times and some test was made up to five times to calculate the medium errors. I suppose that the only possible errors will be smaller from +/- 5 lt/h.

------ DDC Basic 10watt + stock Black impeller + stock OCLabs PlexyTop ------

300W PSU (10.95 working real volt) => 700 lt/hour or 185 GPM
420W PSU (11.01 working real volt) => 735 lt/hour or 194 GPM
OCZ PSU (12.01 working real volt) => 820 lt/hour or 217 GPM

------ DDC Basic 10watt + stock Blue impeller + stock OCLabs PlexyTop ------

300W PSU (10.95 working real volt) => 650 lt/hour or 172 GPM
420W PSU (11.01 working real volt) => 670 lt/hour or 177 GPM
OCZ PSU (12.01 working real volt) => 775 lt/hour or 204 GPM

I don’t think that I have to post the Blue modded impeller performances, because in our test we’ve seen the same performances of the Black stock impeller.

As I was surprised of the today results and the higher performances of this PlexyTop, I think that other people will be also surprised to read these numbers, I decide to repeat the test ASAP and film all the test procedure and put online a small divx movie.

Kind regards, Nikos

Edit: correct english errors

[nikhsub1]

I would suggest that this smaller inlet blue impeller will have more of an impact (of yet which is unknown) when using the stock top rather than a top inlet top. The difference in max flowrate between the two is minimal - real question is what is the max head of each impeller?

[Pete]

What do i need to do for the test as i will do it.

I have RBX with every inlet they offer and a Storm rev2, pa120.3 and pa120.1 i can use too, my pumps are moded to the 18w with the blue impler and that came as 12mm inlet as rev 2

[Petra]

I would suggest that this smaller inlet blue impeller will have more of an impact (of yet which is unknown) when using the stock top rather than a top inlet top. The difference in max flowrate between the two is minimal - real question is what is the max head of each impeller?

I'm still working on finishing up all that pump testing (PQ curves, power consumption, etc).... but the biggest changes with the DDC-3.3 are in the motor, not the impeller. You can drop the blue impeller into the DDC-2 w/custom top and you get a slight increase in head pressure, a slight drop in max flow, and a bit of a boost in the mid-range (though, I don't recommend doing this because, well, Frankenpump didn't sound happy... ).

[el rolio]

(though, I don't recommend doing this because, well, Frankenpump didn't sound happy... ).

HAHAHAHAHAHAH, i giggled to that one.
PETRA! make your tops quieter! actually, by the time i get to build another WC machine (2009?) hehe you'd have revised it a couple times!

[Pete]

I'm still working on finishing up all that pump testing (PQ curves, power consumption, etc).... but the biggest changes with the DDC-3.3 are in the motor, not the impeller. You can drop the blue impeller into the DDC-2 w/custom top and you get a slight increase in head pressure, a slight drop in max flow, and a bit of a boost in the mid-range (though, I don't recommend doing this because, well, Frankenpump didn't sound happy... ).

Alex have you the DDC rev 2 thats the 3.3 pcb?

By the way you gotten any of my PM's?

[Nikos]

Here is our first session tests on the DDC PLUS pump:

Blue impeller + OCZ PSU (11.98 working real volt) => 900 lt/hour or 238 GPH
Black impeller + OCZ PSU (11.98 working real volt) => 970 lt/hour or 256 GPH

Tomorrow we will verify the results again before posting the graphs. Kind regards, Nikos

EDIT: correct GPM to GPH

[Pete]

238 has to be GPH which is 3.96GPM and which impler sizes did you use exactly, black being 12mm and blue 8mm?

[Nikos]

238 has to be GPH which is 3.96GPM and which impler sizes did you use exactly, black being 12mm and blue 8mm?

Hi Pete, yes of course, as I just told you, the blue modded = 12mm = Black stock impeller

So Blue stock impeller with 8.00mm inner hole on DDC PLUS has made 900 lt/h and the Black one (from DDC BASIC pump) has made 970 lt/h.

Kind regards, Nikos

[Petra]

3.96GPM seems about right for the rev. 3.3 motor with top and blue impeller... the main issue that I'm noticing with the 3.3 motor is that the head pressure is abysmal. I might be able to post some results today, but don't count on it.

Here's a quick example (numbers only [from the PQ curves that I've been working on] and, because this thread is about someone else's tops, I'll leave data for mine out of this example):

DDC-2TPMP (18W) with [stock] red impeller at 12.00V:
Max head pressure: 8.7psig (~20')
Max flow: 2.24 US gal./min.

DDC-3.2VCTP (18W) (note: despite the part number, this pump is using the v3.3 motor and has been modified by Laing to remove the volume compensator) with [stock] blue impeller at 12.00V:
Max head pressure: 6psig (~13.84')
Max flow: 2.2 US gal./min.


As a request to Nikos, please stop identifying the pumps by their useless PR names and just use their proper Laing model numbers--it'll make things clearer.

[SiGfever]

I would suggest that this smaller inlet blue impeller will have more of an impact (of yet which is unknown) when using the stock top rather than a top inlet top. The difference in max flowrate between the two is minimal - real question is what is the max head of each impeller?

My guess for the redesign is to limit the flow into the suction volute. I wonder if their testing showed that the larger opening loaded the pump too much causing shorter than normal life expectancy of the motor circuits?

[Petra]

My guess for the redesign is to limit the flow into the suction volute. I wonder if their testing showed that the larger opening loaded the pump too much causing shorter than normal life expectancy of the motor circuits?

Again, the big changes were all in the motor... The smaller impeller inlet doesn't seem to have much of an impact on flow. Additionally, Laing has a 1/2" straight-inlet top for the DDC that flows just as well as any of the custom tops and, just like everything I've had them look at, they've given no indication of decreased MTBF.