I see your ballpark figure and raise you an "I'll take one".
For something like this, its definitely worth it.
I see your ballpark figure and raise you an "I'll take one".
For something like this, its definitely worth it.
If I had one in my hands, I'm sure I could build one, but... building a whitewater clone was hard enough, and I'm even doubting it was worth making it myself (Materials are cheaper, but labour is intense).Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer
which is like what, zero of us?
wow, i guess you got your name honestly
:P No. I just mean that, given enough time, I could learn masterCAM, get some silver and delrin, mesure everything out, and mill it. Or, more (Or less) realistically, mesure it all out, get some custom tooling, make a design in autoCAD, and cut it on a lathe. It'd take forever, and I'm not interested in it, but on a bet, I would. :P
Let's just say that buying it from Cathar is a LOT easier. It's not that it isn't possible, it's just that it's not worth it. There's a reason it takes him time to design new blocks.
EDIT: I was just saying that I have moderate CAD skills, and access to CNC + Lathe at home/at parents' friend's house, which makes it technically possible for me to reproduce the block.
Cathar hasnt pattened his design due to the high cost of patents. A patent in one country can cost up to 15k USD. And he would need to patent it in several countries, or atleast find one country who's patents are most widely recognized around the world.
and once you go through all of that, if someone does infringe a pattent, you need to hire a patent lawyer just to stop that someone/company from infringing your patent. And to make matters wosre, if its a small outfit
(who is infringing upon your patent), your just going to loose money if you try to sue them.
I'm just insanely impressed with all the engineering behind these blocks. It's a shame it's such a PITA to find a Swifty Storm or Cathar G4 these days :\
I just wonder what is the diameter of single jet ? Is it ever possible to clean it if something gets there ? Is there such tiny needles ? Or it should be something like nanotube. I guess there must be some restrivtion for fluid viscosity to be used with those tiny jets.
Last edited by Cooper; 01-28-2006 at 03:23 AM.
I managed to pick up a Cathar G4 last week, quite pleased about it. I don't have any water cooling grear yet other than the block.. but it's a nice block none the less :P
Just wondering if anyone knows where I can get 1/2ID barbs that will fit into it, the one I bought came with 3/8's. :/
Axion, AFAIK they are 1/4" BSP / G threads, so just find 1/2" barbs that are that spec. www.mcmaster.com has some, but not that many since bsp and g are not common in America.
That and he doesn't need patents to keep others from using his designs. Especially in this case, he has an extreme case of niche market. But it's a dedicated niche market.
I think this will be the best waterblock ever.
ebay under aws983s, heatware under Mr. Tinker.
Thats like saying processors will never get faster. There will be better, but I'd say that this block is going to be ahead of its time.I think this will be the best waterblock ever.
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
NoL, I have a feeling this will be the best CPU waterblock for atleast 10 years. I say this becuase the manufacturing process to make the block is at the limit, and it would cost too much to make a design that was better. Because of this, i believe no one will try.
Not only that maxxx, but the amount it 'could' be better is infintile, like on the order of .8C or so IIRC.
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GTZ --> MCW-NBMAX --> EK FC --> PA 120.3 --> PA 160.1 --> 2x DDC Ultras in Series --> Custom Clear Res
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity."
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yup. We'd have to get into some crazy expensive EDM machining before the cups could be made any smaller, and for other design types to compete with even the G7, I believe they would need to be EDM as well.
the other issue with all of this is when u get coppe this thin, you MUST have a very fine filter on the loop or risk seriously dammaging the waterblock.
nik, is that .8C something Stew calculated with regards to a design based off of the Storm principle, or just in general?
Unless we start direct die with some insane flow & pressure.
that looks amazing nice job!
My Rig
DFI LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D 4/06 BIOS
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eVGA GeForce 8800GTX @ Stock
WD Raptor 74GB WD Caviar 250GB
A welder's torch tip cleaning kit has rods as small as .4mm in diameter.
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/we...ml?id=kJSd85Ji
They work great for pushing debris through small dia. holes.
X2 3800 LCBIE 0619 RPMW
DFI Ultra-D
OCZ PC4800 EL (2 x 512)
Watercooled
Okay, thanks for info.
Does any one knows if Swiftech have taken any patent on the STORM block then?
If it is possible when it is Cathar design...
/Thomas
I don't think that is a proper comparison. Manu. tech. for processors has a way to go, has big money behind it and a great market. The extent that waterblock design can progress from here on out does not have the market to support what it would take to see much improvement. I'm not saying it can't be improved, I just don't think it will.
Unless cpu designs see a drastic physical change.
ebay under aws983s, heatware under Mr. Tinker.
thomas, AFAIK, they dont have a patent on it, nor do they ahve a pending one.
Cathar just let them use the design.
I have to agree with you there. I don't think watercooling like we see in a lot of enthusiast machines is going to enter the mainstream. Why? Because I don't think the average user would want to take the time to perform regular maintenance on their watercooling setup like it needs, draining, cleaning and refilling takes more time than I think people are willing to put into it. On top of the risk of getting water on components. Opening up the side panel and blowing out a fan with compressed air takes 2 mins and anyone can do it without really any risk of damaging hardware. The all-in-one kits provide a nice alternative but they aren't pushing the limits of the technology by any stretch. So I think only the odd innovator is going to come up with a new design and it'll take time.
~MadMikeSS~
Intel Q6600 G0 @ 3.2GHz 1.31v - AX MP-05 SP LE cooled
P5B Deluxe 1236 BIOS
HIS HD4850@750/1100 - AX MP-1 cooled
Mushkin 4GB(1GBx4) DDR2-800 5-4-4-15 1.9v
FSP 700W PSU
Lian-Li PC-V2000B
FluidXP etc
Closed loop, maintenance free (as such) kits of low but better than air I predict will become more popular.
However the latest proc's are cooler and so dont really need water - but my opty, thats hot
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