Why Do ATI Cards Score So Much Better On 3DMark2005 Then Nvidia Cards?

[zakelwe]

Anyway, I digress, as I have little time, there are those at B3D.. while few.. that know what theyre talking about (rather than bloviating) and have concluded this to be the case.

Oooohhh, know what they are talking about heh ?

The problem with B3d is that they talk talk talk and do very little else. They send so many posts per day that they have no time for games or benching. When I start seeing people at beyond3d posting 05 scores I might take your word with some weight.

You said

"05' is incredibly vertex shader bound"

then when I pointed out that enabling another vertex shader had little effect and neither does anyone else you come back with

"The 6800 could be bottlenecked by other means, masking the vertex issue"

like what for instance ?

One minute 05 is incredibly vertex shader bound and now for nvidia it is masked by some other thing, presumably this is incredibly incredibly XXXX bound that is masking the vertex bounding


I'll give you a clue, 05 is pixel shader bound. start using your video card in 3D rather than using it in 2d mode to read beyond3D.




I'm not even going to say

Regards

Andy

I am frothing at the mouth too much.



EDIT: bad day? no need to for that comment so i removed it
-saaya

[saaya]

please calm down.

cant it be hat its still the vertex shaders limting the nv cards even if an extra vertex unit doesnt help? maybe its the speed of the vertex units that matters and having more of them doesnt help as much as a faster unit would help?

please dont fight guys

[Cybercat]

Well, if you run pure vertex benchmarks, and separate pixel shader benchmarks, the X800XT PE will usually top both of them. I think ATI just has better drivers, though I'm really not sure. ATI seems to really have the advantage with its higher clock speed.

As far as image quality goes, I only saw three major differences in those screenshots: the water reflections, the soft shadows, and the missing lighting on the back of the ship. As far as sharper textures, I really didn't notice a difference. In the dock bay area thing place, ATI was shinier, but didn't filter LOD as well, while NVIDIA filtered LOD better, but wasn't as shiny, so that was kind of a draw.

[Hallowed]

Andy, take a look at the theoreticals.

NV and ATi more or less tie on Pixel Shader test.

Then look at vertex shader results.

It really cant be more obvious, frothing-at-the-mouth aside.

Why dont you chill out a bit and do a bit of research.

[saaya]

ok the shot of the ship from the side, know what shot i mean?

load those two pics and then switch them back and forth all the time and look at the golden imprints on the red piece of cloth on the ship.

and the shot thats shows the bug with atis x800 in the return to proxycon scene where it shows werid lines on the groun. do the same thing and look at the left on the ground and on the ground above that behind the soldiers.

on both of theese examples you will see that the ati pic has a slightly sharper texture.

but its really a tiny difference, so maybe im just seeing things ^^ but then again, i talked to other people and they thougt the same...

[gafa]

ok i've just read all this thread (pfew!) and just want to ask something...why are you saying that NU's are worse than 9800XT's in this test? you got to be joking right?like, ok now i have my own NU full blown, 16 pipelines and 6 vertex ON and rocking, so i got 5k in 3dmark05, but even before, i got 4100 marks just with overclocking and even without the new 66.81 drivers that give a nice boost in this bench. now where are those 9800XT's scoring 4100 marks i ask??as far as i can see, the highest 9800XT is 3773marks, and we're talking about A64 cpu's, while i have a junk mobile 2500+...the NU's beat the crap out of the 9800XT's in pretty much anything you throw at them... (except, of course, 3dmark2001 :P)
greetz, peace

[Cybercat]

ok the shot of the ship from the side, know what shot i mean?

load those two pics and then switch them back and forth all the time and look at the golden imprints on the red piece of cloth on the ship.

and the shot thats shows the bug with atis x800 in the return to proxycon scene where it shows werid lines on the groun. do the same thing and look at the left on the ground and on the ground above that behind the soldiers.

on both of theese examples you will see that the ati pic has a slightly sharper texture.

but its really a tiny difference, so maybe im just seeing things ^^ but then again, i talked to other people and they thougt the same...

lol, you're talking about something SO tiny, it's not even worth noting. Those shadows and reflections, those are REAL differences. In motion you wouldn't be able to notice anything with the textures. You'd be able to notice those other things though. Besides, if you still want to make that an argument, look at the fairy forest screenshots. Flipping back and forth (and again this is so small it's negligible) it looks to me that NVIDIA has the sharper textures. I still think these are non-issues though.