silent rotary ???

[hyperionix]

hello everyone !!!

i am looking for 500-700w super quiet rotary max-10" high
need your kind recommendation

i need as many models as u can post here
thank you all

[sdumper]

hello everyone !!!

i am looking for 500-700w super quiet rotary max-10" high
need your kind recommendation

i need as many models as u can post here
thank you all

Quiet Rotary = Oxymoron

[kitfit1]

Quiet Rotary = Oxymoron

^^^^
Just about sums it up me thinks.
There simply is no such thing as a "Quiet Rorary".

[[XC] gomeler]

I wonder if it is due to the discharge side of the compressor being exposed to the exterior shell compared to a reciprocating compressor that explains why they are louder than reciprocating compressors. I have found though that if you secure a rotary to a heavy base and reduce/remove any vibrations that rotary compressors can be used in close proximity for extended durations. That being said I prefer the hum of reciprocating compressors versus the grind of rotaries.

[antiacid]

so what would be the quietest compressor for a 300-350w @ -30c ?

[[XC] gomeler]

The Danfoss SC series comes to mind. Something in the SC15 to SC21 range would hold that with ease. Very quiet compressors for the displacement and motor power.

edit: I should note that the SC18CLX.2 is the only compressor of that line or close to this sort of displacement that I have used. There may be reciprocating compressors in this range from other manufacturers like Embraco that would fit the bill but I haven't used them personally.

[kitfit1]

so what would be the quietest compressor for a 300-350w @ -30c ?

I would just like to add a bit of info to this, for those that don't know.
Holding the evap at -30c is not the temp that the cpu will be at under full load.
For instance, an i7 with 1.4v through the cpu under air would be at about 80c.
So under this "phase" scenario, it would be at 50c (or there abouts).

So antiacid, are you asking for the evap to be at -30c at 300w, or are you asking for the cpu to be at -30 at 300w ?

[[XC] gomeler]

I would just like to add a bit of info to this, for those that don't know.
Holding the evap at -30c is not the temp that the cpu will be at under full load.
For instance, an i7 with 1.4v through the cpu under air would be at about 80c.
So under this "phase" scenario, it would be at 50c (or there abouts).

So antiacid, are you asking for the evap to be at -30c at 300w, or are you asking for the cpu to be at -30 at 300w ?

Incorrect. When an evaporator can shift the load the delta between the IHS and the evaporator surface will only be a few degrees as determined by the efficiency of your thermal material at that temperature. Typical deltas that I have witnessed are in the 5 Celsius to 25 Celsius range with the lowest deltas being recorded with my liquid nitrogen pot and the highest deltas with a single-stage utilizing a Chilly1 evaporator. I've seen temperature differences in excess of 30 Celsius but those were typically from underrated systems like my cascade where the evap gradually heats up due to being overloaded by my 980x through 3DMark Vantage.

It is best to bench with a probe on the IHS and a probe at the edge of the evaporator. Measuring the delta gives you an idea of the quality of your mount and if your cooling apparatus is holding up to the load being dished out to it.

[sdumper]

I would just like to add a bit of info to this, for those that don't know.
Holding the evap at -30c is not the temp that the cpu will be at under full load.
For instance, an i7 with 1.4v through the cpu under air would be at about 80c.
So under this "phase" scenario, it would be at 50c (or there abouts).

So antiacid, are you asking for the evap to be at -30c at 300w, or are you asking for the cpu to be at -30 at 300w ?

not true....

[antiacid]

not true....

While I have sdumper's attention, what's your pick for the quietest compressor that you would use for an i7 (I'm expecting Sandy Bridge to be in a similar thermal envelope)?

I'm seriously considering switching to phase on my SB upgrade, possibly before to try it out so before I bust out the spreadsheets, I'm doing some catching up with the pros hehe

thanks!

[Gray Mole]

Yeah, it all depends on the evap design, it's mass, the ihs and it's contact with the core...

But 5-15 degrees idle and 20-40 load difference between evap and cpu temp is about right.

Quiet rotaries....well the one horizontal rotary I used was actually almost silent. It was also around 1/5hp at best, and wouldn't do anything at high load.

So unless you wrap it in insulation, rewrap it, and then encase it in foam, then put it in a case...

Well you get the idea. Any rotary any size you want, just isn't.

There are some promising ones not tested though, due to cost. Tecumseh has a line of variable speed DC rotaries now, and they are purported to be very quiet. Until I hear it myself, I don't really buy it, but I do hope they find a way.

Gray

Oh, and I don't really find the S series that quiet in Danfoss. For that size I actually found Kirby 12 - 18cc recips a lot quieter, with similar performance.

[antiacid]

what about scroll compressors? Would those be acceptable, beside the whole "works only on 240v" thing?

[t800]

Powerful compressor + silent = not going to work (easily anyway). When you have powerful compressor, it will produce lot of noise and heat which both elimination is painful.

Noise you can lower by _professional_ and _strong_ casing, meaning walls needs to be wide & thick (hard wood/metal) + inch of foaming all around.
Now due compressor & condenser produces heat and they require active cooling, you need to create air ventilation channels to case, which makes it even bigger. Not mention you cant just drill direct holes to case to let air come in/out -> this will make sound insulation useless.

So if you are not willing to create casing, either buy smaller compressor NL~ are tolerable or accept the noise from big compressor

[hyperionix]

ok thank you all I will use the good old NL11F

[antiacid]

t800, I want model numbers for silent compressors, not insulation 101. Thanks anyway.

so far:
-rotaries
NL11F
SC18CLX.2
maybe Danfoss S series

-reciprocating
Kirby's BA16LMY

-scroll ?


It's a shame that most data sheets don't come with sound levels for those types of items. It'd make my quest a lot simpler

I'll keep looking, there ought to be someone who had one drink too many and designed/built a more silent compressor :P

[Gray Mole]

Between the fact that any scrolls I've seen are 240v and up, and no smaller than 2ton, using them as a multihead 'quiet' compressor is unlikely. Quiet compared to Rotary but I doubt quiet compared to NL11, which is our 'standard' really for noise level.

SC Danfoss isn't terrible, but isn't something you'd put into a quiet cooler.

MP12 ACC/Electrolux is good.

Kirby 12cc is good.

Neither are as quiet, but I found both close to NL11. MP14 and Kirby 16 I used, and were both quieter than SC Danfoss.

Embraco is always good in their lower efficiency models. High efficiency ones were always noticeably noisier.

Similar with the Tecumseh, older series of the same size were quieter but efficiency ratings were far worse compared to new ones.

Just got a 1/2 to 5/8hp AE5465E compressor, 12cc R22 and it's surprisingly quiet. The newer version AEA had a strong 'ticking' to it like the SC Danfoss series. I found the FR series similar with the 'ticking' sounds.

Rotary are only quiet if they're insulated. That's how the portables do it. You geta few really high end Portable AC units that advertise 'whisper quiet' and on low fans they really are, but after stripping them and finding the compressor encased in a block of temp resistant foam, I can see why.

So imho, a 'quiet' unit or at least a lower noise unit with a reasonable level of performance, especially in a dual evap cooler, is going to use a compressor that's 134a/R22 and in an older design with less of the effficiency. Justmy experience with compressors in general.

But as always I'll keep looking and waiting to see if they come up with a quiet rotary design. Won't be holding my breath though


Gray

[[XC] gomeler]

How about remotely locating the unit? Jumping through 15 hoops just to silence a single-stage makes little sense when you could just stuff the condensing unit somewhere where noise isn't an issue.

[Gray Mole]

How about remotely locating the unit? Jumping through 15 hoops just to silence a single-stage makes little sense when you could just stuff the condensing unit somewhere where noise isn't an issue.

With chillers it's been done, and it's a good idea.

For a single stage it's another hoop, considering the length of the suction line, and the cost of the flex. 'Built in' to a house is interesting, solid line to an 'access point' for the suction flex to the PC I guess. Still need to consider the venting for the condensing unit itself I suppose.

A waterproof case on a window hanger, just outside the room, window closed? Suction wouldn't need to be 10' long that way.

All very possible, but none really easy, or inexpensive, or pretty for that matter.

Really a case that's built well for sound insulation seems an easier solution.

That's project for multiples of small compressors for noise reduction is fine, but for those wanting serious cooling, or multihead, it's not that ideal. That one is more about quiet/moderate cooling.

Larger recips for those wanting real power but reasonable noise seem like, as always, the only viable solution.

Gray

[[XC] Lead Head]

We have some 10,000 BTU GE window units with LG Rotaries in them. Once they settle down they are just about as quiet as any recip I've heard. There is nothing fancy encasing these compressors either.

[Gray Mole]

I actually have a 12cc LG Rotary here for my cascade project.

I'm not sure if it's going to be on the base or final stage, but I'm going to start brazing it in this weekend, I'll see what I think about noise levels as soon as I do.

The LG rotaries did seem to be quieter than some other brands, but I'm not holding my breath about it being a 'quiet' solution.

I agree, though, that the rotaries do calm down to a more reasonable noise level when the back pressure comes up. In vacuum they're pretty rattley sounding, but the Rechi in the bencher I threw together get's much better at 0-5psi low. Definitely not quiet though.


Gray

[piotres]

SC Danfoss isn't terrible, but isn't something you'd put into a quiet cooler.

About which SC You've thought when You wrote that ? I've heared that it's big difference in sound level between for instance SC18CL and SC21CL.

[t800]

t800, I want model numbers for silent compressors, not insulation 101. Thanks anyway.

Well i wasn't answering you anyway .

My past experiences would list Compressor noisyness as:
5 = you can sleep on room system running
4 = you listen music/use computer without compressor bothering
3 = compressor noise starts bother
2 = Loud, you can be in same space not to be prefer long time.
1 = JackHammer

Danfoss NL11F (11ccm) = 4+
Danfoss SC15CL (15ccm) = 3+
Danfoss SC18CL (18ccm) = 3
Electrolux MP14FB (14ccm) = 3
ASPERA NE2134GK (12ccm) = 4
Some LG rotary = 2-

With sound insulation casing you can increase points by + 1.

Remotelly locating unit, i'm same lines with Gray, but in another hand, one way is to do as with my current setup: System is running in garage where i have drilled hole in wall to "computer room", to carry wires for mouse,keyboard,display,audio,ethernet, compressor startup..etc, so all noise is behind wall, but of course not everybody has this can of option.

[Gray Mole]

About which SC You've thought when You wrote that ? I've heared that it's big difference in sound level between for instance SC18CL and SC21CL.

Heh

Even the SC12 isn't all that quiet. Just using the NL11F as a comparison, since it's the quietest of the larger compressors in a range that's suitable for low temp use.

SC is MUCH better than the tecumseh's in any range, granted. I used the Electrolux (or whichever brand is on it) MP12 and MP14 and they were quieter, almost resonable for a 'quiet' user, but still not the NL11

I think that's why I've been playing with the really small compressors to see how they handle, at least to consider options outside of the 'bigger and better' mentality.

Honestly? The only reason I don't use a cooler on a PC at the moment, other than I love my laptop is that it's hard to have a really quiet system setup.

I have a 'volunteer' now though my brother's PC is an i7 with a pair of 5850's, and once I get the prototype done for the multi compressor multihead unit done, he'll be having it on his for testing.

I guess I'm of 2 minds on phase.

There's the 24/7 user, that 'needs' a quiet, near silent solution, whether it's just for cpu or cpu/gpu x 3/whatever. Nice over clock and no noise.

There's the bencher, that 'needs' as cold as possible, maybe big rotary bencher or cascade, noise isn't much of an issue and it's not 24/7.

I'm sure there's a bunch that's in between but for the most part now, I'm looking at the quiet system and I mean under 30-40db range. That's not easy if you're looking for a reasonable temperature.

I have a tecumseh 12cc 1/2hp compressor here and though it's the older series it's still not quiet like I'd want for myself. I'll see it through, since it's almost built now (I put dual condensor at opposite ends, both pulling air in, and venting out the side panels, along with a small slhx) and we'll see what the operating noise is.

I've always been looking for a compressor as quiet as the danfoss and never found one, unless it's smaller. I'm still hoping.


Gray

[Gray Mole]

Well i wasn't answering you anyway .

My past experiences would list Compressor noisyness as:
5 = you can sleep on room system running
4 = you listen music/use computer without compressor bothering
3 = compressor noise starts bother
2 = Loud, you can be in same space not to be prefer long time.
1 = JackHammer

Danfoss NL11F (11ccm) = 4+
Danfoss SC15CL (15ccm) = 3+
Danfoss SC18CL (18ccm) = 3
Electrolux MP14FB (14ccm) = 3
ASPERA NE2134GK (12ccm) = 4
Some LG rotary = 2-

With sound insulation casing you can increase points by + 1.

Remotelly locating unit, i'm same lines with Gray, but in another hand, one way is to do as with my current setup: System is running in garage where i have drilled hole in wall to "computer room", to carry wires for mouse,keyboard,display,audio,ethernet, compressor startup..etc, so all noise is behind wall, but of course not everybody has this can of option.

Nice list! Couldn't agree more, and I'm still looking for the elusive '5'.